All right, we're going to go ahead and start it here. Appreciate you guys joining us. I know it's getting late in the afternoon, so thanks for toughing it out. We're here at the Stephens Annual Conference here in Nashville. We've done this last several years. It's been a great event. We're thrilled at the move from New York City after the last, you know, several years before that. Here, we've got Redfin, and that's ticker RDFN. Chris Nielsen, the CFO, is representing the company. And then we've got Meg Nunnally of the IR out in the crowd here. I'm John Campbell, a real estate services analyst here at Stephens. I've covered these guys for a long time. I feel like I know the story really well, but what I've known has changed a good bit. We're going to talk through some of that. I feel like I really understand where they're going with this, but I think it's really important for Chris to kind of lay out the strategic pivots, the changes they've made, why they've done that, and why the time, why, why now makes the most sense. But we'll do this like we typically do these sessions, where I will kind of moderate this Q&A and fireside chat with Chris. Then we'll turn it over to you guys in the audience for open Q&A. Like some of you guys have been to some of these other sessions, please feel free to jump in whenever you want. You can raise your hand or you can just literally interrupt me. I don't care. We want to make this as fluid as possible. But with that said, Chris has been one of my favorite firesides, and I say this to him, and I mean it every single year. He's got a wealth of knowledge, knows this industry inside and out, and obviously knows Redfin, the company well. But with that, let's kind of start off with the macro. And we kind of do this every year also as your tradition, just kind of running through a polling of all of our Resi companies and kind of how we feel about the macro. But for next year, we'll start off with this, U.S. housing. Do you expect it to be up sharply, up modestly, unchanged, down modestly, or down sharply? Up modestly. We're planning for the year to be somewhat better, but understand that there's a lot of variability here and are being really cautious about how we're thinking about things. Yeah. And I think this would probably, your answer to this is going to influence a lot on how you feel about actually housing because how exposed it has been to rates. But, your views on the 30-year mortgage rates next year? I think we'll see a little bit of rate relief, but we're not expecting a lot again. Just being really cautious on that front. Yeah, and then home prices? The trend continues. Prices up moderately. Yeah. I think I might be with you on all of these people. And then, you know, like anytime I ask about politics and like it's just, and it's extra polarizing now. So let's take feelings aside, completely remove that. I understand. Just thinking of that from a business standpoint, the political environment changed. Is that a positive, negative, or neutral to U.S. housing? Maybe slightly positive. Neutral to slightly positive, something like that. Okay. Let's unpack that just a second. Where do you see what is it a policy change? Is it you know impacts the interest rates? Is it around home affordability or inventory? Like what's the driver there? I think perhaps some on interest rates, but perhaps just general economic climate. I think that we've certainly seen consumers influenced by a variety of both hard factors and psychological things, and so perhaps there's something there. Yeah. Tough question, but, you know, I think there's a million different ways to answer this for people, but like, what do you view as a normalized market? and how long do you think it takes to get back to that normalized market, which is important? If you look to pre-COVID era, there were over five million existing home sales quite consistently. I do think of that as more a normalized environment. A prediction on exactly when that happens is really tough in this environment, but we can certainly see there's a lot of pent-up demand that consumers are interested in buying and selling homes, so there's no lack of interest, perhaps a lack of will and perhaps a lack of economics is what's holding it back right now. Yeah. And so the current state of the market is, as you mentioned, we're, you know, somewhat in the trough environment. It feels like the casual move-up buyer is just not there anymore, right? This is mostly people who are having life events where they kind of their hand is being forced, right? Outside of interest rates, what do you see as the key drivers of housing? What could improve housing? Like what metrics should investors be tracking saying, "Hey, that's getting better. Therefore, I think housing might should maybe get better"? I'm not sure there's a single metric or combination of metrics that way. Again, I do think we can talk a little bit about what we've seen during the course of the year, but customers were excited by some of the Fed rate changes, even more so than the actual rate changes. I think just the idea that things could be getting better seemed to have been a catalyst. We commented on this a couple of weeks ago, but post-election, we did see an uptick in volume. You know, I think one theory is that people had excuses up to that point. I'm going to wait for this. I'm going to wait for that. I need to move, but I'm waiting for this one more thing. And, you know, with each of those things that goes past, I do think it creates the opportunity for more sales along the way. Yeah. That's one thing about your story, about your business model in general that I think people tend to overlook is you do have 50 million unique visitors, right? That is far and away the largest from a brokerage, right? Like clearly it's lower than Zillow or Homes.com and Realtor.com, but like from a brokerage standpoint, lots of good insights. And the thing that you, that you have that others don't have is you have the ability to see not only what's being saved down, what's being shared with spouses or friends, but also who's booking home tours, who's actually placing offers, right? You have lots of really unique insights that I think give you probably the best view, best proxy in the U.S. housing. So with all that said, you had mentioned one of the, one of the drivers or the home buyer index is something you guys track and that it was up pretty sharply. So just talk about what you've seen over the last couple of weeks. I think this is kind of an important moment where rates drop sharply in September, climb right back up in October. So up until this point, kind of what you're seeing in the site, what kind of indications, what forward indicators you're seeing? I think that's the right description that when rates came down during the summer, we didn't see a big change in customer demand. That did change when the Fed made the announcement about the Fed funds rate. That seemed to catalyze things with consumers, and then post-election is yet another bump. We're not seeing that transaction volume has moved materially over that period of time, but it has been encouraging to see that there are still many consumers out there who want to get a transaction done. When there are these events, it does help them kind of think clearly about what's likely to happen next, and so that's the dynamic we're following. It is a tremendous help to be able to see through our funnel. We can see people on the website reaching out for tours, booking offers, and all the way through. And it does really just give us a view on what's happening right now and what's likely to happen next. But still there's a backdrop of a lot of uncertainty, particularly around interest rates at this point. Yeah. And continuing on the concept of uncertainty, I mean, it just feels like from an academic standpoint, rates go lower, you know, demand should pick back up. Didn't really see that to your point earlier this year. There was, you know, uncertainty around the election. There were other things that were maybe holding people back. But then, you know, rates dropped. We did see a little bit of activity pick up, but they've gone back up and things really haven't, you know, like we're still, demand is still there, right? So I know it's really hard to discern how much of that is just like, all right, well, since the Fed rate cut announcement happened, then we're off to the races. I know there's still a lot of uncertainty there, but framing it up that way, what have you assumed in your guidance for a forward view that things improve, kind of stay the same, get worse? We have not expected any kind of improvement in the housing market. In general, the way we provide guidance is not so much based on the market, but what we can see in our own bookings, and I do think things were kind of in this same range as we were providing guidance, and we haven't seen anything materially different from a sales standpoint over that period of time. Yeah. For those kind of newer to the story, let's just, I feel like we have to touch on NAR settlement and business practice changes because it does influence you guys. You know, you started from day one, like your North Star is a consumer, right? Any other brokerage or most other brokerages, they will tell you their North Star is the agent. That's their customer, right? And they want their agent to deal with their end consumer. You guys are factoring and you're catering to both, right? So talk to us about those practice changes generally and how the Redfin model changes or stays the same or potentially is enhanced with those changes. Sure. So we believe real estate should be less expensive for consumers. It should be better for consumers. I think just generally how we've navigated the practice changes here is consistent with how we've always operated the business. We've wanted consumers to know that they can save money working with us. We've wanted them to understand the fees and commissions that they would pay through a transaction. And so just from a practice standpoint, we did have to make a few adjustments to the information we provided on the website, but those changes were relatively small and there was not a lot of change in terms of the way our agents needed to operate. And so I think that those changes have gone through smoothly just in terms of how we put things together day to day, how our agents work with customers. I think more generally, I'm excited about consumers knowing better what they're paying for real estate. I think if anything, we do charge lower fees than our competition. If consumers are more discerning on that fact, I think it's a positive for our business. And then I think there's another piece that comes out here to being a positive for our business, and that's that because there's so much more communication with the customer early in the transaction, customers are less likely to work with a brokerage over a long period of time, maybe tour with that brokerage. We've certainly seen this in the past with some customers and then not close their deal with that broker. Because there's that communication now, I do think that it should enhance our customer quality going forward because a customer knows if I'm starting this transaction with Redfin, I'm going to expect to finish it with Redfin. Yeah. Fair. So I think, you know, during the period of uncertainty, as you implement these practice changes, the industry practice changes, I think a lot of, you had a lot of views out there that the commission rates would plummet, right? Just get, I mean, drop to 1% from 3%, right? On the one or 2.5% on one side. You hadn't seen that yet. I think the keyword could be yet. I want to get your take on that, whether it's too early to tell what you're seeing in the system, how often negotiations are happening now. Are there any indicators that tell you that it might start to slide a little bit? Just broader views around that. Sure. So it is hard to put your hands on all the data here as compared with previously. We could see a lot of that information through a multiple listing service. I think what we have seen is that there have not been significant changes in the fees that buyers pay, at least so far. We certainly hear anecdotes from our agents that there are more discussions about those fees with buyers, with sellers. I personally believe that that means if there are more of those discussions, that will put some more pressure on fees over time. But again, the evidence, it is pretty scant at this point that that's really what's happening. Yeah. Obviously you don't, if fee is part of your revenue, right? Commission, you don't want to see it necessarily get, you know, come under a lot of pressure in the industry, but you kind of mentioned this earlier. Yeah. That there is a potential advantage to your value prop, right? If that does happen, so maybe walk through the competitive nature, how that can improve. Sure. So maybe just describe how we price for buyers. We charge a competitive fee in every local market. On top of that, if a customer agrees to work with us early in the transaction, we will provide an additional 25 basis points fee reduction. So we do think that in that way, we're often a price leader in local markets with a lower fee than our competitors. We can back that up by delivering well for the customer, but we like that stance on the buy side. And then similarly, we do charge less than our competition for someone selling a home, typically a 1.5% fee, or less than that if the customer is also buying a home with us. That's long been part of how we think about this business, which is again, that we can earn a profit that the customer should be able to pay less over time. Yeah. Okay. And one more just tangential question to that. So the 1.5% is if you are not using Redfin on the buy side. So if you're a seller, you're selling for 1.5%, you're listing for 1.5%, but if you use you guys on the buy side, after you sold your home, you get 1%, right? That's correct. Have you talked at all about what that kind of mix looks like? How often that is actually happening that you're getting both sides? We haven't described it in a lot of detail. It's not an infrequent occurrence. It's a pricing offering that we've been really happy with because when we're working with a customer all the way through the transaction, it should be less expensive for us, and so we're happy to be able to pass that along to consumers. Okay. Makes sense. Let's stay on the industry here. We're going to get to the model, but I, I think that it is kind of important right now that we're going through this big debate around the Clear Cooperation Policy, and most people refer to it as CCP. So for those who are new, explain what CCP is in a couple of quick sentences, words, and then what's your stance is, what's Redfin's official stance on the, on the debate? Right. So CCP is about sharing listings quickly. If you're a broker, if you have a listing, that needs to get shared through the Multiple Listing Service. Our stance here has been one that we do believe those listings should be shared, that's better for buyers. If you're buying a home, you should have access to the full set of listings. That allows you to make a good choice. That's what's fair in the market. More fundamentally, we think it's also good for sellers. If you're representing the seller of a home, we do think that you will end up with a better price on that property if you share the listing more broadly. There are a variety of rules available in local MLSs to allow for private listings. We're supportive of that as well. But wherever possible, we do think that sharing is the right approach. Yeah. Makes sense. In a world, let's just assume CCP is eliminated, right? And we go fragmented and we're going to undoubtedly take a step back in time, right? Because where we do have a very efficient market right now, where everybody's kind of, not necessarily forced, but you're all playing by the same rules. You put all the listings together. Everybody has access to everything beneficial for buyers. In the future, that goes away. You potentially might have to go five different sites to see all of what's available. That's not necessarily good for the consumer. If you end up going down that route, what are the potential positives maybe for, for a Redfin? Sure. So if there's a change in that way, we're glad that we have 50 million monthly visitors on the website. That's a lot of traffic for people to take a look at the listings that we have. And so we would certainly look to take, you know, the greatest opportunity with those listings. And you know, we'll adjust our business practices if it turns out that the rules with regard to this change, but we've laid out our stance pretty clearly. Yeah. And again, if you guys have questions, audience, jump right in. I'll keep working through these, but I'll keep my eyes open to see if you guys have any questions. On, you know, like the two big pivots, I think you can kind of almost isolate it to two areas. You've got the move to digital, which covers a couple of different things, and you've got the move to Redfin Next, move away from the W-2 salary agent model. So let's unpack both of those. Maybe start off with digital. Sure. What you're doing there, what drove the decision to focus on that, and what you think the opportunities are? So, probably the biggest change has been including advertising on our website, but then also acquiring a website that handles rental inventory and monetizes that through advertising. And, you know, what's appealing about both of these is that they tend to be subscription-based businesses, higher profit margins than our brokerage business. We think that they're very additive to that brokerage business in that the listings from rentals make for a better experience on Redfin.com because you can see both for sale homes, but also rental homes. And then we're able to earn extra profit from the monetization from the advertising on Redfin.com as well. And so, you know, these are business changes that we think both make things better for consumers, but also our significant profit opportunities. Our most profitable segment in the most recent quarter was from that advertising revenue. And so, you know, that's nice to be able to lean on, particularly during a period of time when the housing market has been so up and down. There's some acyclicality that comes from both of these businesses. Roughly what percent of your revenue is digital now? It's small, but the profit is meaningful. Yeah. That's the way I think about it. Yeah. The second major pivot, I think this is a major focus area for the story right now. I'm not sure, at least some of the folks I've talked to, I'm not sure people have a full grip of exactly what you're doing. But just to frame it up, you guys were one of the very, very few that had a W-2 salary agent model, where, you know, that it allowed for operating leverage over time, ability to scale the business. It allowed you to have employees so you could force a feedback loop from software to agents and then actually create good homegrown software, right? So it made a lot of sense, but I think in particular, the last couple of years when you've had the mix from COVID to, you know, the peak to trough of interest rates has made planning a W-2 salary model almost impossible, right? Because either worst case is you're losing market share, because you're not staffed appropriately. And then the other side of it is you are, you know, you're potentially, you know, protecting market share, but losing margin in a big way. So it makes it, you know, I think the, the cyclicality and the fluidity of the business makes it really tough to run salary model. With all that said, you guys just made the change to go more traditional model. So, walk through the thought process, where you are in the process right now and the transition and what you think that means for the P&L over time. Sure, so rolling back the clock just about a year ago at this point, we were taking a look at where were the biggest opportunities in the business. We know that improving close rate makes just a huge difference. We meet a lot of customers along the way. If we can get more of them to close, that's really valuable, and as we were looking at our agent base and where we wanted to add agents, we could see that there was an opportunity to improve agent quality and the number of agents, but we would likely need a different pay plan to do that, so what we rolled out is Redfin Next, which takes what used to be about 25% of an agent's compensation that was in the form of salary and moves all of that to variable compensation. We did that in four markets at the beginning of this year. We've been really pleased at the kinds of close rate improvements that we've seen from it. So in steps through the course of the year, we've been moving additional groups of agents from what used to be more fixed pay to what's now more variable pay. At this point, all of our agent base has moved over to this. Again, we think that this is a better solution for consumers because we're able to provide higher quality service. It's worked very well in terms of our ability to attract agents to the platform. So this additional variable pay has really hit well with agents who are thinking about joining Redfin, and then on top of that, there are some business benefits. You were mentioning some of them, but more variable allows us to handle some of the ups and the downs of the business with a little less bounciness than we have in the past. And you can really even see some of this in the fourth quarter of this year where the guidance we provided was for gross margin of 29% during the quarter. That's up 600 basis points year- over- year. In the past, with more fixed compensation, it would often be the case that gross margins would fall during the winter months, but we're staying much more stable, even during this period of time when volumes tend to slow down. And so I think that's good evidence that the economic impact is starting to be what we wanted it to. Let me just add one more piece to the story here, which is because the compensation is more variable in this way, it also is really encouraging us to hire more agents, which should allow for more market share gains. In the past, you know, sitting here on this day in the year, we would be really careful about agent hiring because getting overhired can be really expensive in the first part of the year if industry volumes got slow. We're just in a different spot right now where we're really pleased with how hiring is going. It's allowing us to add more agents, more capacity, more fuel for market share gains going forward. Yeah. I feel like, you know, if I'm a competitor to Redfin, this to me has got to be terrifying because one of the biggest ways that they could keep you guys at bay from their agents is, oh, they're going to pay you a salary and you're not going to pay as much, right? You could double your transaction volume and get paid less than if you stay with me, right? So you guys give up the higher variable pay and so it's going to look very similar to them. And you know, the common joke across the industry, I don't know if it's even a joke, but is like, what is an agent's, you know, retirement party? They say a funeral, right? Because they don't say they're 1099 independent contractors, right? So with you guys, they get benefits. They, you know, they're going to get a similar comp package. They're going to get technology paid for, which all of them have to pay for as independent contractors. They're going to get leads from the website, which are super valuable. That's why Zillow exists as a business today. It has a market cap because they sell leads to agents, right? So from a recruiting standpoint, like, why does this not just open the floodgates? We've been, again, really encouraged with how this, this product, this offering has landed with agents over the last year, but in particular, as we've rolled it out nationwide in the last few months, and it is the combo that you mentioned, which is leads to the agent. Most agents don't know enough people, so they're really excited about the possibility of adding to, the customers they can work with in the next year. The business in a box, some of the types of things you talked about in terms of software and support staff, and then because these are employees of the company, we also provide medical benefits and other kinds of things. The combo has landed really well with agents. I'm sure it won't be the, the combo that works for every agent, but we've found a really strong cohort of people who are excited about this offering. And so, you know, we're glad to be here today as opposed to a year ago because we've really been able to prove this out. And it does set us up differently for 2025. Yeah. Yeah, go ahead. [audio distortion] The question for the audience is, what does this new Redfin Next compensation model look like from a competitive standpoint? Who do you mirror the most? Here's how I think about it, which is for we pay more, we pay a higher transaction bonus on agent-sourced volume. And we think of the implied split that comes along with that as being very comparable to top splits in the industry. Most of the agent's volume, however, comes not from those agent-sourced deals, but from ones that come from Redfin.com. There we do pay a lower split, but there's more transaction volume that the agent can put their hands on. So the way we designed it was to be really competitive on those agent-sourced transactions. Can you use Zillow? [audio distortion] Yeah. The question here is about whether agents could use Zillow or other kinds of platforms. We have our agents focused on working with Redfin.com customers. Agents do some amount of marketing on their own, but they're mostly focused, at least initially on the customers coming from Redfin.com. And from our standpoint, like this is what we've talked about. If Zillow ever is backed into a corner, they could look kind of like that model where agents are paying 50% for Zillow Flex leads, right? And I think your gross margin on that's what, 50%? So pretty, pretty common. That makes a lot of sense. Okay. So we talked about gross margins. You think the majority of them are going to be from the company sourced from the website? Yeah, that's right. And maybe just describe the gross margin impact here. Mostly this is about taking dollars that were previously in the form of fixed compensation and taking those same dollars and moving them over to variable compensation. Yeah. And then you think from the net impact, and again, a lot of this is moving parts, you're going to, you're going to find that along the way, but, from a net impact, you think it's to be neutral to gross margin or slightly positive? Neutral to gross margin in the short term because we're paying the same percentage in a different mix to the agents. In the longer run, there are enhancements to gross margin that come from this because with a slightly more experienced agent, it means we need less manager oversight. They need some amount less support. So some of these kind of fixed or semi-fixed costs included in our real estate services cost of revenue, we think that they stay more fixed over time. So there's some gross margin enhancement that can come from it. Let's say all those assumptions are correct. If you assume that housing's identical next year, right? We look at a year- over- year relative to 2024. You have had some cost reduction initiatives. You've reduced the number of, you know, field managers. Like there's a lot of things you've done. Right. How much support is there from those actions you've already taken? Is it, is it negligible, modest? It moved the needle. It's moved the needle, and it, you know, we do think that if the housing market's the same next year as it was this year, we're set up for more share growth, and that will be obviously positive on revenue, and I do think that there would be gross margin enhancement in that case as well. Okay. And then aside from gross margin, just moving down into OPEX, is there any kind of impact from Redfin Next changes within OPEX? Because the W-2, I guess, the salary component was falling into COGS, right? Yeah, that's correct. There wouldn't be any meaningful change associated with our operating costs from the change. Okay. Makes sense, and then do you have a question? How many Redfin Next agents have you added thus far? Have you been able to size that out, piece that out? I don't think we've provided that stat specifically. We've all the agents we would have added this year and certainly all the ones we'll be adding in the fourth quarter of the year are under this program. So, and what we said on the call was we expect to add hundreds of agents into next year. This program is all in support of that. Yeah. And hundreds, I took note of that. Hundreds is a pretty, it's a pretty strong statement, right? How many agents do you have now? most recently around 1,800. There are 1.4 million realtors in the United States of America. Plenty of opportunity. Yeah. Hundreds on top of one, 1.4 is like still pretty meaningful, right? 1.8. Yeah. Okay. Makes sense. Before we kind of go into the other sides of the business, the ancillary service side of the business, you know, you guys came in this year talking about, you're pretty convinced and adjusted about positive. Yeah. Glenn went as far as apologizing to investors, which I'm like, don't ever call. I mean, do that offline, but it was, you know, that was a pretty big moment. What changed for you guys, because I think for the macro standpoint, you really weren't expecting much help this year, so maybe the one or two things that kind of held you back from adjusting to that positive and what you think the path looks like from here. Sure. We didn't get to the revenue goals we had in the third quarter, both in real estate services and the mortgage business as well. We didn't get to the top line piece of it that, you know, takes a hit then against the profit dollars that can come from that. On top of that, we did have several million dollars of additional transition costs that we hadn't anticipated, both related to this change to Next as well as some of the integration between our rentals business and the rest of Redfin. Back to the Next piece of this just here for a second, we've already made program changes, so those costs won't be recurring. We had costs that were more expensive than we had anticipated for some of the new hires under the Next program, but even after having made those changes, we're continuing to recruit well against it, so you know, we're disappointed that that didn't work out the way we intended it to, but glad that we're kind of moving past it and seeing good success with the program. Yeah. I think we, you know, I might talk about this a little bit after the call, but you didn't back out those one-time costs. It's not every so often you change your business model to the point you are. To me, that feels like a one-time cost. So what was the decision to go and eat that cost? Yeah. So in terms of adjusted EBITDA, we've held a pretty hard line, actually really hard line that it's only been related to kind of severance expenses when people are leaving the business as opposed to these kinds of one-time items. And so that's the approach we've taken here. We've wanted to be kind of clear and transparent with investors in that way. And so that's been our policy. seen some shocking stuff added back over the days. You guys are definitely the good guys there. Okay. Going back to your IPO days, you guys, I think on the roadshow actually talked to kind of adjusted EBITDA target. I think you guys at one point were talking to kind of high teens over time. Obviously a lot's changed in the business. You have digital now that you didn't have then, so that maybe that changes the complexion, but just curious about how you're kind of framing up if that's still a good kind of long-term bogey you think about. It is. I think that as we've taken costs out of the business, as we've reoriented towards digital and as we've now variabilized more of the costs, what we do need now is either some more volume coming from market share or an improving housing market, or we'll have to take more costs out of the business to get to profits. But the potential is clear and obvious to us that the business will work really well under either of those conditions. And so that's what we'll keep driving to. Okay. On the balance sheet, that's, that's the, you know, the, the flip to profitability, big investor focus. The balance sheet with, with, you know, debt maturities, that's been a pretty big focus. You guys got Apollo loan. Maybe talk about, how you're feeling about the balance sheet as you sit here today. Your, your kind of stack of maturities, what that looks like, and what the path forward looks like overall. Sure. I think we're navigating this. So we have a maturity coming up at the end of this month. We have a $70-some million, $74 million 2025 convertible note maturity that we'll address a year from now as well. Again, we feel like we've navigated this well. We're going to need to, going to want to drive to profits. That's the most important thing to generate more cash flow in the business. And then more generally, we'll continue to be opportunistic about the capital markets. As we see the right combination of both business need and capital markets activity, we'll be thoughtful about whether there's anything differently we should do, you know, in the near term or the longer term. So navigating is the way I would describe it, through a lot of changes in the business, but but also just a lot of changes in terms of industry volumes. I'll move to mortgage. And again, you guys have any questions, feel free to hop in. I'll stop for, probably, five minutes, towards the end of the time, for you guys to fill in any other questions as well. Let's go to mortgage. That's a very obvious cross-sell to your core brokerage business. Your attach rates, you know, you, if you're an outsider looking in saying a 27%-28% attach rates, that doesn't sound great. That's really good relative to the industry. So talk to us about, how we, you know, a new investor coming in, how they should be viewing mortgage, what your opportunity is there and kind of the near to medium term outlook, whether you're including refi, if that's added to the business as well. Yeah, we talked about a couple of the big changes in the business over the last few years. This is the third that I would add that way, which is we've long believed that mortgage and title can add to the profit dollars available with every transaction and also serve customers better all the way through their home purchase or home sale. And this is really now starting to come to life. So we've been able to drive attach rate, as you mentioned, on mortgage up to 27%. We were in the low 20s a year ago. We were much, much lower than that prior to our acquisition of Bay Equity. And so this has come together nicely from our standpoint. We can see that there are markets that are quite a bit higher even than that 27%. So there's more potential to grow here. But in terms of the opportunity, it does create meaningful additional profit dollars on every transaction. That's true for title as well, where we've got attach rates above 60%. That team has just been killing it all year. It's been fantastic, both in terms of expanding geographically, but then also driving volume and margin. And so, you know, this is already starting to have an impact in terms of how we think about the business because there are more profit dollars at play on every real estate transaction. We're now willing to spend more, in the auction on Google to buy keywords because there is this additional profit opportunity that can be used to offset that additional expense. So big change in the business that should allow us to then kind of spin up the flywheel of more marketing spending, particularly in the geographies where we've had these higher attach rates. Yeah. So gain on sale. So obviously you have a warehouse, you know, credit line. So gain on sale matters. What does gain on sale look like from a normalized standpoint? How far off are we now? How influential is that to both revenue for lead or for loan and also gross margin? Yeah, we're quite a bit below long run averages here. I think that things have stabilized in terms of gain on sale. And here I'm talking about from a competitive standpoint. I think with so much industry capacity, it's been hard to get the long-term gain on sale. But the team has continued to find cost savings opportunities, to give us a little bit more space that way. And things have stabilized. I think that, you know, we've seen this business run at just much higher profitability than it is today, which is closer to break even. And in terms of the bottom line, and I'm quite confident we'll get back to that over time just as things begin to normalize in that market. We're not counting on a lot of refi activity. We have seen it hit really fast when rates come down. So there's a ton of potential with customers we've worked with in the past, when rates do come down, but we're not building the business based on that. We think that mostly our volume will come from for sale properties and that makes the most sense just in terms of how we operate. I think in the past you said that you expect mortgage gross margins to kind of mirror brokerage. Is that still the case? That is the case. That's right. Okay. And that's just a product of or function of scale at this point? Yeah, it's a function of scale and gain on sale and, just more normalized volume. I think a place where we've been really encouraged in terms of gross margins has been the title business where those have come up really nicely. I used to believe that those gross margins might be, you know, meaningfully below the mortgage and, real estate services business. I think we've got a lot of evidence now that those can come up even more than that. On rentals, you're competing obviously with CoStar Group, Zillow, their whole basket of ILSs. You're competing with Zillow's rentals. Talk about, you know, you mentioned the rationale for getting into rentals. Talk to us about the opportunity you see at hand. You know, as far as like property advertised penetration, total customer penetration, like how much more room do you feel like there is in that business? There are many apartment buildings we're not working with today. We'd like to over time. You know, the way we think about the business is if we deliver a good ROI to the apartment buildings, meaning they pay us dollars, we deliver them high quality leads, there's plenty of room to grow in the business itself. It's a very competitive space right now. I do think we've benefited at least a little bit over the last couple of years from an industry tailwind where there was more vacancy in apartment buildings and maybe that's starting to come down now. It'll continue to be competitive going forward as a result of that, so that's kind of how we think about the business today. The team's done a great job of moving from losses in the business when we acquired it to closer to break even more recently. That's great progress and we're glad with that, but we're certainly not fully satisfied with where we are from a profitability standpoint and we'll want to keep driving from here. Okay. Bookings have been, feel like they've been pretty good. It sounds like you guys have thrown bookings out as a metric occasionally. It seems like bookings is indicating better than what your revenue growth is signaling for 4Q. So maybe if you can talk about the disconnect there. Yeah, I think that we have seen some bouncy bookings over the last few months. That's part of what we indicated, in terms of the numbers on the call and the implication of our guidance. I do think that, there's more opportunity going forward, but, again, what we could see at the time of guidance, is reflected in those numbers. Any last questions from you guys? Final question here. Oh yeah, go ahead. Do you guys advertise like to a person or, you know, in general, I guess like if you're, if someone's selling their house and you were advertising that our agents' fees only one, 1%, 1.5%, like that to me would be something I'd be interested in. I don't know if that's like, is that something you try to advertise directly to people selling their houses? Yeah, the question is how we've approached advertising, particularly around fees. We have seen really good consumer response to fee-related advertising. The idea that you could sell your house for 1.5% or 1% really resonates with consumers. Not every customer is in the market to sell at that, at that moment. And so that's been one of the challenges about that kind of advertising message, which is how to make it really targeted to the people who are most interested in it at that time. But it's a strong value proposition and it's a great read-through in terms of advertising as well. I think Glenn used to call that the sledgehammer or the 1%. Yeah. It has been really good with consumers. Makes sense. Last question, big picture. You've got 16, 17 analysts. I can't remember how many you've, I was at one point a couple of months ago, the only buy. You have one other buy. Somebody just went to sell recently, got a couple other sells. What are people missing? Like, as they, as your investors walk out of this, potential investors walk out of this room, what is the one or two things you want them to make sure they hit home? The change to Next is a big deal in terms of the economics of the business. It's also better service for our customers that should lead to share gains over time. I think that's point number one. Point number two is that there's a lot of economic potential captured in the business that we'll be able to unleash with market share as well as at some point an improving housing market. The business just is fundamentally structured better than it was previously. And so we're excited about that. Gotta get the volume to show it, right? That's right. Okay. Well, that's a wrap. Appreciate you guys taking the time and Chris, as always. Thank you. Thanks for hosting us.