All right, let's get started here. It's 11:55. For those of you that don't know me, my name is Erik Woodring. I lead the hardware research efforts here at Morgan Stanley. Quick disclosure, for important disclosures, please see the Morgan Stanley research disclosure website at www.morganstanley.com/researchdisclosures. If you have any questions, please reach out to your Morgan Stanley sales representative. For the first time, I am pleased to welcome Lucas Haldeman, CEO of SmartRent, and Hiroshi Okamoto, CFO of SmartRent. Guys, thank you for joining us here. Thanks for having us. Great to be here. Thank you. Cool. Again, this is your first time at our TMT conference, so I just think for the benefit of the people in the room, for the benefit of the people on the line, you know, just let's start out very high level. What does SmartRent do? Kinda what's your value proposition? How do you make money? What's your background? Kinda just big picture, and then we'll go on from there. Okay, great. I'll start, and you can add some color, Hiroshi. Sure. At SmartRent, we're an enterprise smart home company focused on selling to people who own apartments, rentals, single-family homes for rent, apartments for rent. Really the niche we started this business, I'm a frustrated operator who was looking for a solution. I was on the operations side of multifamily CTO for a large REIT, and really was shocked at how little enterprise control was out there for smart devices. That there's a lot of really cool hardware that had been built, but no one ever thought about, well, how do I manage 50,000 or 100,000 or 500,000 of these devices? We're sort of that middleware layer that sits between the hardware that's on the property site and then the software that's used to already manage the property, and we float in between. We take all this new data from IoT. There's all these great sensors and great, better protect our assets, better monitor what's going on. Mm-hmm. We take that data and make it actionable. Right. Perfect. I guess maybe let me ask you this. What is your most competitive advantage do you think as SmartRent? Well, I think two things. One is we have the most comprehensive platform, and so if you don't spend your time sort of heads down in multifamily like we do, it may not be intuitive, but there's a tremendous amount of vendor fatigue. Mm-hmm It's a real thing in multifamily. That was one of my frustrations on the operations side is I was saying, "Why would I have four vendors to have one smart house?" Like, that doesn't seem that smart all of a sudden. The comprehensiveness of the platform was really the initial hook that made us stand out from the crowd. Now really the other moat that we've created is just our scale. We've deployed, as of our last quarter early earnings, 547,000 units around the U.S. If you put all of our competitors together and add up what they've done, it doesn't equal that amount. Mm. When you go to talk to someone who has 50,000 units and they want to look at doing a portfolio rollout, for us, it's easy to with conviction say we can easily take that on. Right. If you've rolled out 10,000 units in the past 4 years, operator's like, "Yeah, I'm not sure that we're going to be a good fit. Yep. Right. You mentioned it, but just help us frame the competitive environment today. Is it intensifying? I don't know if you get the question, but I've gotten it, and that is, you know, does mega cap tech play in this space at all, or how do we think about that? Yeah, we get that a lot. Sort of mega cap tech actually embraces us. It's how they play in the space. Mm-hmm. We're a reseller of Google, we're a reseller of Ring and Amazon devices, and so really, we're almost like a channel partner for them in multifamily. Those companies are incredible companies, of course, but they're really used to selling direct to consumer. Mm. The nuance is to say, no one wants to put in a device that doesn't integrate with their property management software. If you go to the mega cap companies, they go, "I don't know what property management software is, let alone how to integrate with it. Yep. I'll just take an end cap in Target and make more money that way. We found a little niche where we actually, you know, we take the best of breed hardware that all these companies are making, but actually make it effective for our customers. Right. Okay. That, that's the perfect lead into what I was going to ask you next, which is, you know, you're kind of a hardware agnostic, let's call it. You do have a few offerings that you produce and manufacture on your own, smart hub, leak detectors. Mm-hmm. You know, why take that approach, but then also, you know, why are there certain products that you manufacture on your own? Should we expect to see more of that, or is this more trending towards, hey, let everybody else do the hardware, we're going to focus on this kind of middleware layer? Yeah. No, it's a, it's an important question. When we first started the company, we really had the idea that we wouldn't be involved in hardware at all, that we would just use best of breed hardware that was already out there. What we found as we really dug into it is there were some gaps. Because of this niche that we found of our customers are sometimes commercial real estate and sometimes residential real estate, right? Mm-hmm. If you think of an apartment when it's vacant, it's kind of just a commercial property. When it's occupied though, it's someone's home. Mm-hmm. It comes with these unique challenges that we couldn't find a way to get around with existing hardware. That's why we started. The first product we built was a smart home hub. Mm-hmm ...that really understood the idea of being a, in a rental property and was durable and commercial in some ways, but also private and secure, so when someone was in there, their data wasn't being shared where they didn't want it. From there, we've continued to look at where we can. Really other products that we manufacture, it's more just to bring the cost down. Mm. Like leak sensors. We wanted to make an improved leak sensor that was more durable. We realized we could do that and bring the cost down. It made a lot of sense to do that. Right. Primarily what we like to do is say take advantage of Samsung, Amazon, Google, these incredible companies that are spending billions of dollars in R&D, Mm-hmm ... to take advantage of that and use that hardware. Right. That was the to the first part of the question, that was the reason for being hardware agnostic was I don't have to invent a lot of this. It's already been invented. I have to make it useful for my customer base. Right. Just from my perspective, covering hardware, it's not always the highest margin business- Right in the world, so Exactly. It does take a long time to create these hardware products. Pull some value add. Exactly, yes. Yes. All right, cool. Let's talk about the opportunity that you guys have in front of you. You've talked about a TAM, I believe it's 41 million units, multifamily and single-family rental units in the U.S. You know, that's obviously huge when you think about roughly 550,000 units deployed. Maybe just kind of like help us along the timeline of thinking like if we're looking out over the next three or five years, like what is more realistic? Cause I've got to imagine that not all 41 million units, you know, the owner or operators of those units necessarily have the money to pay for that when we go further, kind of further down the stack. Just kind of help us frame like the, I don't know, the more realistic near term TAM, I guess, if that's- Mm-hmm the way to phrase it. Yeah. Well, a couple points on that. I think, I actually believe every unit could afford this. Okay of the cost savings that we bring. Okay. That doesn't mean every unit's going to know that they need that, right? You need a customer. It's a good point, but I think the TAM is so massive, I like to kind of bring it in a little bit narrower because it's just so overwhelmingly large. What I look at, there's two key metrics that we really focus on. One is the total units owned by our current customers. Just we have about 500 plus customers. How many units do they own? That number is 6.7 million. Just current customers today, if we said, "Hey, we're never going to sell another customer anything," we would say we could have a 6 or 6.5 million unit portfolio. Mm-hmm. It'd be a massive business. That's sort of the long term of our current customers that have come in over a number of years. The near term, the next metric that we really use as a guidepost is our committed units. That's where owners have said, "I now figured out how to pay for this. To your point, I have budget. I'm ready to go. In the next two years, this is what I want to roll out," and that's 850,000 units. That's more than double where we are today, just in our committed unit, almost like a, we call almost like a backlog. Right. Backlog. That sort of narrows the TAM end, you can see every day, you know, we're adding to that 500 plus customers, adding to that 6.7 and growing it out. You mentioned kind of the customer base, you have over 500 right now. You know, something that I found unique about your story is that some of your largest customers are also investors. Mm-hmm. They know the story well, and so just talk us through that kind of alignment of interest. How did that, you know, how did that come about? Why does that exist? How does that give you kind of a lead on your competitors, so to speak, maybe? Yeah. I think it is a really important distinction of what we've done. I think for me, the one asterisk that I always like to put to that is every one of those companies that invested after we started rolling them out or won their RFP. Right. I like that sequence because it. Sure. Yeah. ... it makes a true partnership. you know, one of the things that we experienced as operators is your portfolio is so large, you can create value for your vendor. Mm-hmm This is just by putting your weight behind them. We knew that from being on that side, we went to these key customers and said, "Would you like an opportunity to invest? That way, when you go and give us a 50,000- or 40,000-unit commitment and we're growing, you're going to recoup some of that cost. Mm-hmm. A lot of these more sophisticated REITs actually looked at it as an arbitrage against the technology spend. They said, "Hey, I'm going to, I'm going to go spend $50 million to deploy your tech, but I own stock, and if that goes up, it actually kind of nets down and makes it sort of an even playing field. Right. I think it was really important as we were getting going to build scale, but it remains important because as we extend the business, as we continue to work and bring new products to market, those are our first customers who are willing to be our test case and willing to try us out because they're shareholders. I mean, it just makes sense, right? If you're going to say like, Wi-Fi is the next big frontier for us. Mm-hmm A nd putting in community-wide Wi-Fi, I think, is going to be a mega trend in this industry. We had owners coming to us saying, "Hey, I'm getting pitched on these Wi-Fi companies. I wish you would do this so I could pay you to do it. Yep. That's fantastic, right? That's a dream come true as an entrepreneur. Last question I'm going to kind of ask you before we get into the nitty-gritty is if you can kind of walk us through the typical ramping process for a customer from, you know, talking to you and learning about the product to getting, you know, units deployed, to turning on that SaaS part of this business. Just walk us through an example of how that might look like. Yeah. It One of the critiques of multifamily is it's a very long sales cycle, and that is absolutely true. It takes a long time. Even people who have invested in us, you know, we went through a long RFP to get there. It's an industry that automatically wants to pilot, because if we're sitting in our headquarter office in Dallas and we have 100 properties around the country and someone comes with something, the natural thing is say, "Let's try it in two or three," right? Mm-hmm. Like, "Why, why would I go all the way out? Let me verify it." If you're going to sell into multifamily, you have to know that going in. This is all muted by one great thing, which is once you're in, we've had zero churn in six years. Mm-hmm. I mean, once you get through that's the benefit of being patient with this industry is once they make that decision and get conviction. Mm-hmm Y ou're basically a partner for life as long as you continue to fulfill. Right. A little less so big, we typically would look at About six months to get into a pilot. Mm-hmm. Another six months for pilot, and then start to roll more broadly. Right. Right. I've got to imagine, just to the turn point, it's got to be hard if you're going through a building and, you know, you have, you know, 50% of that building or 50% of their units are, to then rip and replace. That's very costly, I imagine. That's part of why you're saying it's sticky. Exactly. Right. Okay. Yeah. part of why it's a slow to go in. Right it's a big decision and not made lightly. Right. Okay. Let's kind of talk about here and now. you know, just talk us through kind of, the macro environment, what you're hearing from customers today. Is there, you know, I'm only going to ask you one supply chain question. Just what are you hearing from customers today as it relates to the backdrop and how it relates to how they want to uptake SmartRent? Well, there's definitely, in multifamily, there's a challenging macro environment where we're seeing rents start to soften or come down in some cases. What's interesting from where we sit is that actually becomes a tailwind for our product. Mm-hmm. Because the durable expense savings, the better protection of assets, which saves money, is a demand driver when you're trying to control expenses. It's actually been kind of a long time coming, and we've essentially had 10 years of straight line growth in multifamily, where just candidly, people weren't that focused on the expense side. When growing rents at 11%, you know, the difference between 3% and 4% expense growth is not that big of a deal. Mm-hmm. Now we're back into an environment where we have to control expenses. If we're not able to raise rent, we have to control expenses. Right. While it's challenging for some of our customers, and we don't take that lightly, it's actually a driver of demand for our business. Okay. All right. Here's the supply chain question. I know it was a thorn in your side in 2022. Yeah. just where are we, as we think about where we are today and looking forward? Well, we're in a really good position. I kind of say that, you know, hopefully we're through this entire, all of us, every company you deal with, hopefully is through. It has been a huge theme this time. Yeah. Yeah. Last year. you can see from our balance sheet, we're also protecting ourselves. Mm-hmm against future supply shocks. We're not going to kind of be caught again, Right flat-footed. That's where you can see on the balance sheet just the amount of inventory we hold has grown significantly, and we'll stay there. That's sort of the new normal for us going forward. The good news is we're really. I think the supply chain is thawed. We're feeling good. Okay. Good. The other kind of near-term question was, you reported earnings last night. You guided to 2023. Just kind of talk us through the factors that kind of underlie your guidance, we'll go from there. Yeah. I mean, I think for us, the theme of this year is getting to profitability and getting to positive EBITDA. So the guide is around making sure we get to that. It's a little bit of a pullback from grow as fast as you can. Mm-hmm ... which is basically what we've done since inception. Mm-hmm. Then to grow as fast as you can profitably. So it's a, it's a. Yeah ... I think it's an important one to say, we're not going to try to just add as many new units as humanly possible. We're going to add them in a way that is actually benefiting the bottom line. Right. I guess my follow-up question to that was going to be why? Why now? Why is now the right time to kind of make that slight pivot? It's a slight pivot, why is now the time to do that? I think two reasons. One is we've gotten to sufficient scale where we have a great base, and so it's a, it's a big, important business on its own, right? Mm-hmm. For a while you're trying to actually become meaningful. We reached that point. The second point is we've got all these customers that are in pilot and kind of back to what we were talking about the sales cycle, like, they're not going anywhere. Mm-hmm. They're, they're not pushing us to say, "I urgently need this next quarter." They're happy to kind of go at that pace. They want to get the portfolio done, but they look at it as a two- or three- or four-year rollout to roll out their portfolio. It, it sort of was us pushing just to push, and so it's just a more natural way for us to grow anyway. Right. Okay. you know, I know as you were scaling at times outside of supply chain, there were kind of limiting factors, in terms of being able to deploy. you've hired those people now. Mm-hmm as we think about the limitations, is the limitation really we want to make sure we're doing this profitably, or is there anything else? No. That is the limitation. We want to make sure we're doing this profitably. Okay. We have supply, we have human capital. We can. As we are doing that profitably, you will see us increase the trajectory and go faster. Right But in the right way. Right. Okay. I think one of the more exciting parts of this story is we've talked about hardware and the big picture opportunity. Really, the key here is turning on that software, right? Yeah. Like, you want to plant the seed so the flowers can bloom. Just talk to us about, you know, when you think about that opportunity, what is kind of like your ARPU today? What are you collecting from your customers today? What's the long-term kind of potential for that? What takes you from point A to point B? Mm-hmm. Yeah. I'll, I mean, if you look at the current ARPU, Let's just start with our smart apartment product, cause we have now nine products that we sell. you start with that's around a $5.30 revenue per unit per month. that's our SaaS fee. As every product we layer on, the other eight products increase that SaaS fee. If today you came and said, "I want every product you have," which I wish more people did, that would already be like a $14 or $15 ARPU. Two ways that grows. One is just natural price increasing and pricing power, which is, you know, once you're in, you're in. Mm-hmm. To your point, it's hard to rip and replace, we have some pricing power there. I certainly felt it on the operations side when I was a CPO of software going up, I like that natural growth. The other way that I think is more exciting is there's a lot more products we can add to this, either organically or inorganically, to continue to service the same customer base. Right. We look across the landscape, we're not done. We have nine products. I think we can easily have 15 to 20 in the near term that we think would be interesting. Okay. And we're going to get into that. But something we talked about last night that I thought was interesting was, you know, you've been building out your technological capabilities, but at the same time, you know, you have some of these legacy customers that were onboarded, you know, three, four, five years ago. You know, what is? You know, how do those customers kind of uptake new technology? What is that opportunity almost to, like, upsell to the existing customers that may not have an opportunity to buy this because they came on before these technologies came out? Yeah. It's a big piece. It's part of why we're trying to focus on total revenue and EBITDA instead of just new units. Mm-hmm. A lot of the jobs we're doing, they're not new units. They're already on our platform. We've already counted them as a unit, but we're going back and doing access control. We're going back and doing self-guided tour. We're going back and doing parking management. So it's increasing our revenue, it's increasing our ARPU, but it's not increasing the number of units. Really every legacy customer we have has now continued to draw at least one or two other products. So I think that's part of the growth that we're going to experience is, yeah. We do get the question, people say, "Well, why didn't they roll this out when they were doing the apartments?" Like, "Well, cause we didn't have it. Right. It wasn't a product. Yeah. Right. And so- Right Yeah, it's great. I think the biggest trend we're seeing is in self-guided tour, and this industry is finally embracing this technology of saying, we don't need to have a person walk someone around and show them an empty apartment. Mm-hmm. Like, you know, that's actually something someone wants to do on their own, and we want you to do it on your own. It's much more cost effective. As someone who lives in New York City, I can attest to that. Yeah. Well, it's like It's funny, we did recordings of tours, you know, as we were sort of thinking about self-guided tours, and it. Like, the number one thing that we heard from prospects saying to leasing agents like, "Yeah, I know." Like, "Yeah, I know." Like, "I know. I've seen that. I looked at 72 photos online before I showed up here. Like, I know you have a gym. Yes. We're sort of overselling our product. Are those, you know, you mentioned self-guided tours, access control, parking. Are those kind of the three that you found, you know, existing legacy customers are up taking more so than others when you think about the product set today? Yeah. That and our work order management product, which we, that product we acquired through acquisition. Really modernizing the process of a resident putting in a work order request, which is still. Surprisingly, there's a lot of apartment owners that still, they only have a phone call. Like, you can't go on your app and put in your work order. Kinda shocking to think about all we do on our phone, and it's like, well, just ring the office. Yeah ... so that's the other product I think has really started to take off. Okay. All right. You kind of mentioned, but I want to touch on SightPlan. Yeah. You acquired them, I guess it's just about a year ago now. Mm-hmm. You know, why SightPlan? What's the value that they add? How does that kind of impact the model from, like, a P&L perspective in terms of ARPU and margins and whatnot? Yeah. The why SightPlan, really was It started with, they have a very similar DNA to our company, which is they come from the industry, they are former operators, they understand the industry. They got a lot of their key customers to be investors. You sort of hear that theme. They had sort of a similar approach. We had 39 shared customers at the time of the acquisition. What was amazing is we were seeing the utilization of our platform was significantly higher at SmartRent, where they had SightPlan installed. Mm-hmm. Like, we had better engagement, better usage by the staff. I thought, "Well, that's really interesting." I called Terry, who's the CEO of SightPlan, who's now with us, and I said, "Hey, we're seeing this trend." He said, "Well, that's interesting cause we actually see better usage of SightPlan- Mm-hmm ... where SmartRent is installed. It was really one of those things where they were so symbiotic that putting them together just seemed to make a lot of sense. So that was sort of the philosophy. The other side of it is, it was a SaaS-only software product with incredibly good margins- Mm-hmm ... and was accretive to our P&L. That was sort of made it kind of a no-brainer. Okay. I guess maybe one more question on SaaS, and then we'll I want to ask a question on kind of, like, products and features. You know, you're generating, just so we're clear, $30 million in ARR, you know, on a base of, let's call it again, 550,000 unit deployments. I guess I'm just trying to understand the scalability, and that is, like, if you doubled or tripled your installed base, you know, does ARR double or triple? Is there a multiplier effect? Just help us think about maybe that relationship if there is a relationship. Yeah. I mean, the base case is if we doubled our install base, we would double ARR. Mm-hmm. I think actually as you put in these other products, you actually, that's the multiplier effect. Right is to say the 501,000 unit is going to actually be, have more ARPU than the first unit did. Right. Yeah, the, sort of the, worst case scenario is you would double ARR. Okay. You talked about, the, you know, you mentioned more products. You know, as we sit here, what are you kind of most focused on in terms of products and features that you could roll out to, again, new and existing customers? You know, where are you investing that R&D into? Again, is that hardware? Is that software? I imagine it's more software, what could... Yeah ... kind of like the financial impact, I guess, so to speak, from that? Yeah. I mean, there's a lot of what we're looking at is that intersection of hardware and software because it's complex, which makes it defensible. Mm-hmm. You know? But a lot of it is pure software. I think there's really interesting sort of themes that I'm thinking of. One is around ESG, really around E, helping owners understand and control their utility consumption, helping residents save money on their utilities. Great themes, both financial and environmental impacts there. Kinda green tech, clean tech is, I think, important. The one that's nearest term, I mentioned it a little bit earlier, but to double-click on it, is around providing Wi-Fi. 2.4GHz Wi-Fi. I think that's the biggest near-term product on our roadmap that, coming out of COVID, owners suddenly realized, like, just getting $5 a month so we can have someone sell bad DSL- Mm-hmm is actually hurting my product-. Mm-hmm ... and hurting my image. That what we really need to do. It's sort of this intersection of proptech, which has gained a lot of traction, as you know. Mm-hmm. Also resident demand is saying, "We need connectivity." relying on a cellular infrastructure is not going to work. Mm-hmm. That the answer is not to put in, you know, big DAS installations. It's to go put Wi-Fi in. Right. That what a great user experience to say, "When you sign your lease, you go and download the SmartRent app. That's your keys to your apartment." Everyone download the app, the next question is, "You want 300, 500 or gigabit internet?" Choose your password. The day you move in, everything's connected. Right, exactly. You as the user, you're not going out and going through that friction, pain-in-the-butt process. This is for, you know, the entire building for all of the units. Yep exactly. Right. Okay. The other important nuance, as a former CTO, I'd be remiss if I didn't say it, is it's also more secure. Mm-hmm. As people are working from home, as they're going down to common areas, we've gotten rid of a lot of media rooms and big TVs cause we don't need them, and we've put in office space and conference rooms. Now you're on your secure network when you're there too. Right. You're an important distinction. Right. Okay. Let's get... I want to get into some of the numbers here. I guess kind of going back to the profitability discussion, you know, you talked about turning EBITDA positive intra-year in 2023. Yeah. What are the most important factors that get you to that? When I say that, I mean from like a revenue gross margin, OpEx. What are the different levers that help you guys get there? Yeah. Sure. Let me... I think, you know, as we guided, we plan to continue to increase our revenue. Mm-hmm ... at a pretty steep pace. Doing that, we want to increase our gross margins on all three, really. On hosted services, on hardware, and improvement in professional services as well. I think with kind of improvement in all three of those buckets... Mm-hmm ... and holding operating expenses flat, we should be able to reach, you know, positive adjusted EBITDA. Right. I guess the goal or the maybe the biggest lift is that professional services business. Again, just going from the levels that it was in 2022. Mm-hmm ... to something that is less negative. You know, what do you guys need to do to scale that to an improved level? Yeah. Well, I think Lucas has made clear internally that we want to turn this positive. It should be positive, and it is going to be positive, but it's going to take time. Mm-hmm. You know, we're working on a lot of operational efficiencies. Okay. A lot of additional technology that's added to make people more efficient. Mm-hmm. Gradually, I think sequentially, you'll see that improvement in professional services. Okay. All right. This is, you know, this is thinking kind of longer term because there is such an interesting long-term opportunity here. You know, this is a bit of a model in transition where you could almost say this is like a hardware or software asset trading at a hardware multiple. You're planting the seeds now, but the goal is that five, 10 years down the line, more of this business is being driven by software than hardware and professional services. As we think about that, how do we think about what the normalized kinda gross margin for this business could be? Again, I'm thinking further out, right? Not today. What's the goal? Is there a goal that you think about today? Yeah. There is. It, it's, it really is sort of three separate businesses, and so it's hard to talk about a blended gross margin. The way we think about it internally, sort of long term where we're trying to get to is really sort of into the mid-70s on SaaS- Mm-hmm ... as a gross margin. Then hardware we think settles out in the low twenties. That's a really... That's partly a benefit of we manufacture much of our own hardware, as we talked about earlier, so that's why that margin is healthy. Then professional services, as Hiroshi said, I don't wanna lose money. It doesn't need to be a cash cow. Yeah, yeah ...it's just the friction to get to the SaaS. We want as little friction as possible. We think that normalizes out in a low single digit. Right When you put that together though, as you alluded to, as you continue to grow that high margin SaaS, that becomes more and more impactful. Right. That mix shift. Yeah. Right see a blended gross margin that really takes off. Right. To give you credit, you know, on the SaaS side, I don't remember the numbers exactly off the top of my head, but you've seen a very significant improvement even in 2022 from 1Q to- Yeah 4Q. You're on the way. You're building that out at that business. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, 250% increase year-over-year. Right. Right. The other side of that, again, this kind of cost conversation is just OpEx. Obviously there needs to be scale and leverage in the model. Mm-hmm ... as you get bigger to help get more profitable. You know, today you're spending, let's call it 50% of revenue on OpEx. Is there a target, again, when you think about being bigger, what that would be as a% of revenue? Yeah. It'll be significantly below where it is today. You're starting to see that as we're gonna significantly increase revenue this year and really hold that flat. Right. We're at that point where we're kinda getting the economies of scale. Right. It'll continue to grow, but at a much slower pace than revenue. Right. You'll see that continue to drop. Cool. We're almost out of time. Just last question is really just, you know, leave us with what are the thoughts that you guys wanna leave us with as we go here? What's most important as we think about having SmartRent on our radar? Yeah. I It's a great question, and thanks again for the time today. I think one of the things we're trying to really help the public understand, and we touched on it earlier, is just really the embedded growth that's already here from our current customers, that we don't need to. We're doing a lot of new products. We're doing a lot of exciting things, but we actually don't need to do that and you would still wanna be an investor in this business just based on our current customer base. Cool. Lucas, Hiroshi, thank you very much for joining us.