Welcome to the Needham Growth Conference. My name is Josh Reilly, and I'm an analyst on the enterprise software team. We're excited to have Tyler Technologies this morning, and we have Brian Miller, who is the CFO. So, Brian, thanks for taking the time today. You know, I think investors are generally familiar with Tyler, so maybe let's jump right in. The budgetary environment has been a tailwind now for several years. One of the key questions I get is, how or will this change with the Trump administration taking over, and when will the bleed-off of COVID stimulus dollars impact demand trends in 2025 or 2026, particularly down to the state and local level where you are the most relevant for your business? I guess the short answer is, for us, we don't really anticipate any significant changes to the demand environment from the administration change, and particularly not at the state and local level, and that would be consistent with what we've seen in prior administration changes. As you said, we're mostly focused on state and local. About 5% of our revenue comes from federal, but the vast majority comes more at the local level and at the state level, mostly from transactions. We're really seeing a market or activity in the market that remains very stable at these elevated levels that we've seen for the last several quarters. We've talked about, you know, the early indicators of market activity, like the number of RFPs we're responding to, the number of sales demos we're doing, you know, how the pipeline is moving. All of that is pretty stable at these elevated levels, and we really don't see a change to that from the administration. With respect to the ARPA funds, you know, significant amount of direct funding to state and local governments. Going back to post-COVID, everybody got something. They had until the end of 2024 to commit those funds. It doesn't mean that they had to sign a contract to spend them, but they had to sort of allocate those. That's been done. They've got until the end of 2026 to spend them, so we expect that we'll continue to see a tailwind of some sort through 2026 as those funds are spent. I would say that we don't think it's been the biggest driver of that active market. It's been a factor. It's really hard to quantify the impact of the ARPA funds accurately. We certainly know of some incremental deals that have been in the market because they had extra money from ARPA. But even in cases where they're spending ARPA funds, they're specifying that they're paying for something with ARPA funds. It doesn't mean that that wouldn't have happened without those funds. They do tend to be used more for one-time things. So, for example, in our school transportation solution that automates all the aspects of school buses, there's a significant hardware component with those, and we've seen ARPA funds used to pay for a lot of the hardware. And, of course, there's an ongoing SaaS subscription that goes with that. So we do expect, and we saw a lot of that in 2024, so we do expect, as a result, to see hardware revenues, which are a pretty small line for us, show a decline in 2025. But, again, not really significant. It's been certainly a plus and expected to continue to be, but not really the biggest driver. Got it. That's helpful. So, as investors think about the correlation of budgets to your end market demand, your products are typically a non-discretionary replacement of an end-of-life solution. How does that factor or impact the correlation of local government budgets and the demand you experienced in prior economic downturns? Yeah, it really creates a very stable kind of underlying demand. We don't ever have explosive growth, but we really don't go backwards either. As you said, it's a fairly non-discretionary decision because governments are not ROI-driven. They're not profit-motivated, and they actually don't have competition. So some of the motivations or the drivers of demand in the private sector, things like that have an ROI that would, you know, to become more efficient, to have a competitive advantage, aren't really factors, big factors in the public sector. Having said that, replacing a system almost always does have a pretty measurable ROI. It's just not what drives them to replace it. They tend not to like change. They tend to use systems much longer than you see in the private sector, really till for some reason they get to end of life. That can often be with a 20-year-old or 30-year-old system. So it creates this sort of steady demand, but also demand that, in some respects, is kind of hard to create or accelerate. So it's not really tightly related to budgets or economic conditions because all these applications are really mission-critical or essential functions. It's public safety, property taxes, payroll, licensing, and permitting. So when that system gets to end of life, replacing it is a non-discretionary decision. Sometimes, what we've seen in prior downturns, we think back to the Great Recession, 2008, 2009 timeframe, we saw lengthening sales cycles. So we saw customers or prospects that said, "I need to replace my ERP system. It's at end of life, but this is a bad year. I've got to wait another year." They typically can't wait four or five years or just not do it. So we saw sales cycles lengthen, things stay in the pipeline longer, but not demand go away. A couple of key differences from the last big recession was that back then we were only about 50% recurring revenues, and today we're north of 85% of SaaS or maintenance or transactions. And those revenues are very sticky and highly recurring. They don't go away because that system's not going to go away. And then also back then we were primarily a licensed business. So buying a new system meant a big capital outlay, so a bigger upfront spend than today with SaaS. It's a much smaller upfront sort of hill to climb. So I think we would expect in tougher economic times to even fare better. And what we saw back then was, even with those conditions, the worst year we had was a flat year. Then that was followed by a kind of a high teens growth year as there was sort of this catch-up. We wouldn't expect to see such a dramatic change in a future downturn. Got it. That's helpful. If you look at your largest product segment, ERP, it's basically in line now in terms of the size of the payments business, in terms of revenue. But last year, entering the year, you had, I know you had a very strong pipeline of RFPs for the ERP division. Maybe a couple of items. How was the execution of those deals in 2024 relative to your expectations? And then how should we think about the pipeline entering 2025? Yeah, in ERP in particular, we talked about this strong market activity in 2024 with RFPs kind of certainly at pre-COVID levels or above pre-COVID levels and this high level of activity. In 2025, we really reflect or expect market activity that's reflected in RFPs to be very similar to 2024. We're not seeing any signs of material changes there. Again, this stability at these elevated levels. With respect to the upper tiers of the market, I think that's an area where we've had increasing success. We're seeing about 20% of our pipeline going into the year sort of in those upper tiers of the market. Got it. All right, so you just mentioned that you've had some success moving up market in both ERP and public safety. If you look at the pipeline for these two divisions, what do you think is driving some of these larger wins? Do you think it's the reference wins that you've already had, I know, like with Orlando and Naperville and some of these areas, or is there some other factor at play with the way you've restructured the platform or something from a product perspective? Yeah, I think more of it is just building on references, especially in the public safety market. In the ERP space, as I said, about 20% of our pipeline going into 2025 would be kind of considered in the upper tiers, so like a SaaS fee of more than $500,000 a year and where we're scored a good fit. Obviously, we have very deep functionality and features built up over a long period of time and really are kind of the leader in ERP and certainly in the mid and upper mid part of the market, and we have two products, one that's ERP, enterprise ERP that's more for the upper end of the market, and ERP Pro, which is more for the mid and lower part of the market. We've had several wins in those upper tiers in 2024, and we certainly lean into those wins in the sales processes for our ongoing opportunities. In public safety, that's also an area where we've had a lot of success. Our cloud product, as the market has shifted pretty rapidly to being not just open to the cloud, but favoring the cloud, the investments we've made in our cloud product really have positioned us well there to compete across the board, but particularly at the upper end, and we've won several state police agencies in recent quarters, which would be considered tier one kinds of deals and have more of those in the pipeline and places like the ones you mentioned, Orlando, which I think is one of our biggest public safety customers, Naperville, Illinois, in the Chicago area. So yeah, we continue to build on that success, but also with the competitive advantages we have around our cloud solution. And then one of the other areas related to ERP where we're really seeing a lot of activity in the upper end of the market is with our Priority-Based Budgeting tool, which came to us through an acquisition in 2023 and really is a sort of an AI-driven application that really enables governments to budget with sort of a whole different way of budgeting, taking into account what their needs and priorities are and helping them determine how to allocate their budgets. So in 2024, we had wins with City of Seattle, began a pilot project there with Los Angeles County, Kansas City, Missouri. So big tier one kinds of clients. And we have a number of other tier one prospects in our pipeline. Some of that interest is being driven by this movement called Rethinking Budgets, which is sponsored by GFOA, which is the Government Finance Officers Association, and another trade group called ICMA. So a lot of interest around that. We're really the leader, sort of the pioneer in that space and generating a lot of tier one opportunities, which hopefully will lead to other cross-sell opportunities with those tier one customers. Awesome. That's interesting. All right. So Courts and Justice, which is about 14% of revenue, is in the midst of probably the most significant cloud transition of any of your business segments, just given the magnitude of what's about to happen there and the timing potentially. You recently had a little bit of a mini conference where you met with these customers. Curious, what's the feedback in terms of the expected pace of these migrations and what type of multiplier effect on the maintenance revenue should investors expect from these deals? Yeah, we held our what we call our executive forum for courts in October. This is where we bring together high-level executives, whether it's state Supreme Court justices or court administrators and other leaders of some of our largest court customers. And we are the leader in that court software space with, I think, 17 statewide court systems and eight of the 10 largest counties in the country. So these are, well, not as big in number of clients as our ERP product, for example. It does include some of our biggest customers. So we had about 75 senior-level clients to discuss a number of issues, including those that face courts, but a lot of discussion around our strategy and product direction. SaaS and cloud were certainly major discussion points at that event alongside AI and automation in general. We indicated at that conference that 2025 would be the last time that we release an on-premises version of our Enterprise Justice product. So clients are well aware of our continued move to the cloud with that product. We will support that product for an extended period of time, five plus years, and we'll make minor updates to it for compatibility and security purposes. But beyond that, our customers are aware that all of our investments will be in our SaaS-only version. We flipped to the cloud our first statewide court system last year, the State of Idaho, very successful project. While our customers have a lot of questions about the specific mechanics involved and how they plan for a move from on-prem to the cloud, 95% of the attendees responded that they were with either favorable or neutral terms around the move to the cloud, which means they know it's coming and they expect it. The majority of those current on-prem statewide clients have reached out to the State of Idaho and talked to them about their experience with the move to the cloud and learned about how that went. Idaho has served as a very, very positive reference for us. We know of several counties that have begun or several counties and some state organizations that have begun the budgeting process to plan for the move to the cloud as well. In courts, I'd say our multiple of maintenance experience is very similar to what we're experiencing across the company, so roughly 1.8x the maintenance is the revenue uplift. We do expect to see a significant increase in the number of flips that we sign for courts in 2025 and a greater increase on top of that in 2026, so we think that 2025, 2026, 2027 will be our peak years for flipping courts, and certainly there's some large customers in there as well. Can you just remind us, how does the revenue recognition work in this scenario where they may be still paying maintenance? Is it when the new system goes live when they flip from maintenance to subscription, or is there something we should be aware of in terms of? No, it's basically when they, yeah, when they start operating in the cloud environment, so when they're live in AWS. So typically, that would be the lag from the time, say, we sign a customer to move to the cloud to when we actually get that revenue uplift, typically a quarter or two, depending on the customer's readiness, whether they need to work through an upgrade to get to the current version of the software if they're not on that at the present time or what their internal processes are. So with the State of Idaho, for example, it was almost a two-year planning and discussion process between the time we started talking to them about moving to the cloud to the time they signed the contract, which was in November of 2023. But then we launched the project at the end of January, and they were live in May, I think. So pretty short time frame to actually execute the move to the cloud, but a lot of planning around it. Do you think that two-year time frame that they went through in terms of planning that Idaho did, that some of these other states can have a shorter planning time? Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah, Idaho was. That was an unusual. The first state that was, and states are complex because it's one customer, but there are multiple counties. Each of those have court administrators, have IT organizations, might have different integrations to systems other than the statewide system. So there's a lot of planning. But I think with them being the first state court to move, it was a different level. We've seen others move much more quickly. So for example, Fulton County, Georgia, which is Atlanta, flipped to the cloud last year with both their property tax system and their court system following a ransomware event. And we were able to get them live, at least in a light version of the software in the cloud in less than two weeks. There was a lot of urgency because of the security issues they had. But we did that before we even had a contract with them in order to facilitate that. And then we were able to bring up the rest of the full solution a little bit later. But so definitely can be done a lot faster depending on the urgency. Awesome. All right. So you've been on this journey to migrate products to be fully optimized for the public cloud. I think investors are generally familiar with that. Maybe just an update on where you stand today in terms of the eight product segments or more importantly, the subsegments. I know that obviously within the eight product segments, there's many subsegments, and are there still a few within those subsegments that need to be public cloud optimized? Sure. We talked about all the aspects of our cloud transition around the version consolidation and getting our clients over to the one cloud version of the software around the cloud optimization and the work we've done around optimizing products to run more efficiently in the cloud and the development efforts around that. But it's really multiple cloud transitions because each product starts at a different place, has a little bit different roadmap and timeline for that, different dynamics around the customer groups. So they really all are different. We have made significant progress around the optimization of many of our flagship products. A lot of those are sort of phased transitions as more of our client base moves over to the AWS cloud. But we did start to see the initial impact of releasing some of those cloud-efficient versions in our 2024 margins. As you know, our guidance at the end of Q3 implied roughly 150 basis points growth in operating margins in 2024, and the cloud-efficient software is certainly one of the drivers of those. We've launched a lot of our public admin, which is ERP, licensing and permitting some of those applications in 2024, and we'll start to ramp up the number of clients that are moving over to that version in 2025. The justice group is sort of phasing in, which is public safety and courts are phasing in the cloud-efficient products or cloud-optimized products now with a lot of our tier one and tier two clients that are currently on-prem will start to move over to those versions. Then payments is also operating in a cloud-efficient manner today. It'll move over to the AWS cloud version in 2027. Got it. Is it essential? Is there some sort of milestone you need to hit with preparing these products for the public cloud before you shut down the second data center at the end of the year, or is that not? No, that's not directly tied to that. Although as we move those customers to the AWS cloud, obviously, we want to move them to the version that runs most efficiently in the cloud. It's more of a cost impact and efficiency in lowering our hosting costs. We can move them on the current version to AWS. It's just having that cloud-optimized version lowers the hosting costs and makes us more efficient. And that's really a factor or one of the gating items or one of the factors around moving more of our on-prem customers to the cloud. We didn't want to move large numbers of customers to a version of the product that is more expensive to host. So as we get those cloud-optimized or cloud-efficient versions in production, it sort of opens us up to move faster around moving the on-prem customers to the cloud. Got it. That's very interesting. Okay. All right. So maybe moving on to everybody's favorite topic, which is AI. You made three smaller acquisitions a little bit over a year ago, if I remember correctly. And from my work and speaking to some of your customers, it seems like there's been some nice cross-sell of these products. You just mentioned a little bit earlier, one example there. As you look across the product portfolio, how do you manage maybe the broader integration of AI and Gen AI technologies and kind of the full suite of products? Yeah. We've had a very intentional process around planning how we integrate AI into various products. And it's really centered around driving value for our clients in the three areas that we think where we see Gen AI as having the greatest impact. One is around productivity. It's around helping people be more efficient and do more with less, which is a common theme around in government in general that they always have limited resources and they have a lot of essential functions they have to do. So they're always looking to do more with less. And technology is the way they do that. And AI, we believe, will be one of the ways that can help drive productivity. And we think that's one of the things is we talk about the DOGE and the greater emphasis on government efficiency. The technology is a way that they're really going to get to that. And AI can be a factor in that. The second area is really around decision-making. So it's helping decision-makers get access to data and the insights they need to make better decisions. And the third is service delivery. So it's really using AI to knock down some of the barriers that get between residents and the services that governments offer. So providing easier access to information and to service. An example of that is in Indiana. Indiana, I think, recently were one of their very first AI projects and releasing an AI tool that includes chatbots and access to information so you can ask a question, "I'm starting a nail salon, and what do I need to do?" And it'll point you in all the right direction of licenses you need and permits and taxes and those sorts of things. So across all of our business units, we've taken a really intentional approach to how we identify the opportunities. We've got lots of ideas about how we can use AI. And in fact, as we talked about earlier, there are already a number of use cases in some of our products, including some of those we acquired in 2023. But so as a result, we have a pretty thorough AI plan that we believe will start to demonstrate a significant value for our clients over the course of the next year. If we execute it well, we think that almost every product line will have a solid AI story and that most of those should generate incremental revenue opportunities for us. We have a very unified approach across the company. We're trying not to have scattered AI projects going on in an uncoordinated manner. We think a lot of these that we can leverage work across multiple products. And so we've got the partnerships with leading vendors set up. We've got a governance set up to make sure that we're able to deliver this story responsibly. But there's a high level of, with most things, as with most things, government's not generally wanting to be the first to adopt almost anything. And it seems to be similar with AI. There's a lot of curiosity. There's a lot of interest, but they're really looking for guidance and for leadership around that. And that's what we look to provide. Awesome. All right, so along with the cloud transition, have come these kind of bubble costs or managing customer deployments of software in both the public cloud and your data centers for some period of time. You shut down the first data center already and manage this process for some customers. Maybe could you just explain how have these, when did the first round of bubble costs peak and then come off, and now we're kind of at the final stage of the second round of bubble costs, and when would these potentially come off? Just maybe just give us a little bit of background of how these deployed. So historically, we hosted our cloud customers in a private cloud and two Tyler data centers. Obviously, we're moving to AWS as our public cloud hosting partner and getting out of the data center business, which we really aren't able to scale. And with our relationship with AWS and the scale of business we bring them, the pricing has become more and more attractive as we grow there. So we closed the first data center, as you said, the Dallas data center in mid-2024. And the bubble costs really arise as we move our customers out of our data centers into AWS. We start paying AWS to host those customers. But we have a lot of fixed costs around our data centers, whether it's depreciation of hardware, utilities, rent, whatever the fixed operating costs are. A lot of those operating costs are fixed. So as we start to move customers over, we start paying AWS, but we don't really shed a lot of costs until we actually close down that data center. So we closed the first data center mid-last year, which is in line with the schedule that we set out a couple of years ago. But so the cost there peaked just before we closed it. So those costs are largely sort of out of the system now. But the bubble costs around the second data center continue to grow until we actually close it at the end of this year. So those costs will peak shortly before we close it. And then we are on track to close that data center, which is in our own facility in Yarmouth, Maine. So we largely expect those costs to end with the closure of that at the end of the year. So there may be some small carryover costs into 2026, but mostly the benefit of that will be a 2026 impact. Got it. And then just in terms of the magnitude of the sequential increase that we should expect quarterly in 2025, how do we think about that? Are we talking about five, 10 basis points impact to gross margin? Yeah. We'll say kind of in that range. Yeah. So then the peak might be 25-30 basis points headwind by the time we get to the third quarter. Is that kind of the right way to think about it? Yeah. Maybe a little less than that, but somewhat. Okay. So it's not a huge overall factor there. No. Got it. All right. So in terms of the public safety market, it's about 6% of revenue. And I do a lot of work in this space. It's probably the most competitive product segment that you operate in today. There's been a lot of innovation in this space. How do you kind of maintain an edge when your large on-premises installed base in this segment goes to RFP in the next several years? And it seems like the pace of cloud migrations may be actually a little bit quicker than what we would have thought a couple of years ago. Yeah. That's the one area that was a big surprise for us or that it was surprising to us in 2024, how fast that market moved from being really resistant to the cloud. And it was really the one market that was not very open to moving to the cloud to being very open to moving to the cloud and in most cases having a preference for it. So obviously, there have been more successes both with Tyler and other vendors in, or at least some of those vendors that have cloud products and customers in the public safety space operating in the cloud. But particularly with Tyler, we've had some successful implementations. Some of the same factors that have driven in other markets like ERP and courts and increased interest in moving to the cloud, things like their difficulties with maintaining their own infrastructure, whether it's hiring qualified people in the IT space or replacing retirements, replacing hardware, and then cybersecurity concerns, a lot of ransomware events in the public safety space that certainly have a big impact when those systems are crippled because of ransomware, so all those things have driven an increased interest, and at the same time, Tyler really shifted to a much more active stance in trying to both start to flip more of our on-prem customers, but especially with new customers, drive them to the cloud, and last year, where we expected going into the year, probably at the height, we expected 50% of the new business to be cloud. In Q2 and Q3, 100% of new names chose cloud. I mean, we'll still have an occasional license deal for a while, but we pretty much lead with cloud. That's what our customers have gone with. It helps that we continue to make really big investments in the cloud product in prior years, even when the market wasn't as open to the cloud. From a product perspective, our cloud product is really very advanced in the public safety space. As I said earlier, we've had some successes with larger tier one clients, including some state police agencies that are going into the cloud as well. Generally, but even at this point, I think last year, maybe in the first quarter or maybe the end of 2023, but pretty recently, we just had our first flips of on-prem customers. That number has increased each quarter. It's still a relatively small number, but I think we expect it to start to increase more significantly, certainly in 2025. Generally, when customers, our on-prem customers, move to the cloud across our other product areas, and we don't expect it to be different in public safety, they don't go out to bid. They don't go out with an RFP. They're just moving their Tyler system to the cloud. So obviously, as I said earlier, around the courts, there's a lot of planning. There's a lot of work that goes into that with them understanding what has to happen if they're not on the current version of the software and they need to upgrade to the current cloud version. But we don't expect those clients to go out to RFP. We expect them to move with Tyler to the cloud. It's certainly a much easier move, especially from the user's perspective. It's not really a significantly different interface or processes to move it to hosted at AWS, but it's certainly much less effort than it would be to replace that system with some other vendor. We do believe it's an opportunity to sell them more products, to sell ancillary products around the public safety system that they have from Tyler that might also be on-prem. So it gives us a chance to expand our relationship and upsell. But generally, we don't see that as a driver of churn or a reason why our customers go out to bid. It does create a much better client experience when they're in the cloud, and we've done a lot of work educating our customers why not only it's good for Tyler for them to move to the cloud, but why it's good for them. It eliminates these disruptive large annual upgrades and ensures that all of our customers are using our most advanced, latest products. Got it. So maybe moving on here a bit. So when I talk to customers, they highlight the Tyler kind of ecosystem play as a really easy way to kind of add on incremental products and drive cross-sell. Obviously, and I see a big part of the thesis there was cross-sell opportunity. I know early on you were successful with a couple of products in cross-selling like MicroPact, which now you've renamed to something I can't remember offhand. Tyler Application Platform. Tyler Application Platform. But the question is, with now another full year of NIC ownership, have you expanded the cross-sell even more into the broader kind of ecosystem? Yeah, that really has happened. And it took a while. I mean, there was a lot of learning on both sides. Former NIC, now our Digital Solutions Division, has these very deep relationships with, I think, 28 states with their enterprise contracts. They're deeply embedded with the CIOs, with the agency heads because they're really providing that digital front end for a lot of these back-end legacy systems. So the idea is that we can become aware of needs and pain points sooner, potential opportunities for legacy systems that are going to be replaced or new needs for systems. We can get in there sooner. We can show them a Tyler product. We can avoid a competitive situation in many cases because they can treat that as just a new statement of work under the existing enterprise agreement and not have to go through a full competitive process. And so those were all the kind of part of that thesis. But we had to learn and become educated on the NIC side about what are all the Tyler products. Tyler has a lot of products. And so they needed to really learn about what do we have that we can offer their customers. And we had to learn about all these state relationships and what the opportunities were and what the needs were and where there were opportunities to kind of match those up. We also had to do work around how we go to market, how we encourage, and how we incent this cross-sell, how compensation structures and commission structures work with different divisions of Tyler, how everybody gets paid to make that happen. We have and are actually now in the process of adding additional sales executives to help drive more of the state business. But in general, I think we've seen a lot of success, and we've seen opportunities well beyond the kinds of things we initially envisioned, like MicroPact or the application platform. That was one they had already worked with some of the NIC states. They have a pretty big state presence. That was one where we thought there was a big opportunity. But we've seen others, for example, using our data and insights platform in Kansas to solve a problem that the state property tax board had with access to data. We were able to bring in our Tyler Data & Insights platform for a several hundred thousand dollars a year ARR opportunity that we wouldn't have been aware of without the NIC relationship. One of the areas where we've seen, for example, had a lot of success is with cannabis regulation. We have a regulatory product for managing all the aspects of cannabis regulation. And so as additional states legalize marijuana, it creates a need for a system to manage all of that. And I think we now have either four or five states that are NIC state enterprise states where we've been able to sell our cannabis regulatory product into. Again, I think in all cases without going through really a competitive process. It's quicker contracting, easier access to opportunities. I think in general, the pipeline that we have and the successes we've had to date are in excess of what we sort of envisioned at the time of the acquisition. Awesome. All right. Well, we only have one minute left, so we'll do one rapid-fire financial question. Maybe can you just go through some of the puts and takes in terms of thinking about revenue and actually more interested in operating margin in 2025 relative to the $2.35 billion annual sales target you gave and 25% non-GAAP operating margin? Maybe just focus on operating margin in particular. Yeah. I think we talked about we gave a 2025 and a 2030 targets for operating margin, I think 25% for 2025 and around 30% plus in 2030. Obviously, we haven't given 2025 guidance yet, and we'll do that when we issue our Q4 earnings. But I think what we've said is that that progress towards the 2030 targets wouldn't be linear. So there'll be years where there's greater operating margin improvement. There's years where there's less. 2024, actually, as you saw through the first three quarters, we're kind of running ahead of plan. Some of the cloud efficiencies and some of those things we're seeing earlier. So what we said is we're very confident of meeting or exceeding that target that we set for 2025 for operating margins. But I would expect that the expansion in 2025 would be less than the roughly 150 basis points that our guidance for 2024 covered. So operating margin expansion, confident around the 2025 target we set, but probably that implies not as much expansion as 150 basis points. So kind of average this 100 basis points a year over several years. Some years higher, like 2024. Some years not as high, but still good expansion. And also confident in the range of, I think, $2.3-$2.4 billion for revenues. Awesome. All right. Well, with that, we are out of time, and I want to thank Brian very much for the chat today. Yeah, thanks for having me.