Great, we'll get started. I'm John Hodulik from the Communications Research team here at UBS, and I'm very, very pleased to welcome Adam Townsend, the CFO of VIZIO. Adam, thanks for being here. Yes, John, good to see you. Thanks for having us. Yeah, good to see you. So we've got about 35 minutes for questions. Again, I've got the iPad here, so if anybody has any questions, especially any zingers, throw them in here- Right up and I'll work them into the conversation. So, Adam, as we always do when, you know, we start off the presentations at the conference, you know, largely through the year, starting to look out into 2024, if you could give us a sense for what the priorities are for VIZIO as we look into the new year. Yeah, look, we're excited for 2024, primarily to build on what we established already in 2023. If you think back to 2023, if you've been following our story, we really continued this progression of ramping up and building out our capabilities on the ad tech side. What we've done around our engineering resources has really evolved. That's led to a relaunch of our home screen with a totally redesigned home screen. We've rolled out, even in the past couple of weeks, a revision to our operating system that makes it work much faster, much more responsive, better search and discovery for consumers, better solutions for advertisers as well. So you sort of bring all that together, and then we leverage that into 2024. So 2024 is gonna be a beneficiary of a lot of the investments and the uplift that we did in 2023. Also excited about new things, like, you know, political is gonna be a more important element. I know you cover some of the traditional media guys. CTV is really kind of just coming into the foreground in terms of opportunities for political. So we've put some resources against that. We hired an individual in that area to kind of focus on that for us, build relationships with the ad agencies that represent the campaigns, and kind of move us forward on that front as well. So a lot coming together. We can dive into a lot of different elements here- Yeah. But I think, I think there's a lot to be excited for 2024. So, I mean, obviously, you guys are, you know, a growing player in the ad market, and, you know, you just listed a number of initiatives to sort of drive, you know, deeper penetration. Could you just talk about the sort of transition of ad dollars from linear TV to connected TV and how VIZIO is positioned to capture those dollars? Look, I think what will happen is, in many industries, you see this, where movement on the part of the consumer starts first, and then businesses follow, right? So, viewers are already coming into CTV in a big way. Streaming is really expanding, as we all know. Stating the obvious there. If you look at our user base, they spend 58% of their time using our TVs in our streaming capacity, and that's up significantly over the last two years and at an all-time high this last quarter. So the adoption curve is happening, and what happens with that is that they're coming out of linear. So every hour you're not spending in linear, you're spending in streaming. And ad dollars have got to follow. You got a large $70 billion linear TV ad world that's now trying to find reach, trying to replicate reach that's losing as people cut the cord and move into streaming. So we sit right in front of that macro trend that's really working in our favor. We're set up to capture it. We've now established ourselves with three years in the market, building relationships with ad agencies, ad partners, expanding our capabilities, and really set up now to benefit from that big tailwind. How does that 58% of the usages to streaming been trending? I mean, we look at The Gauge data all the time and sort of look at streaming versus the rest of the... I mean, has that been, you know, steadily marching up over time, and like, what kind of number could we get to in, say, five years? Yeah. Yeah, it's an interesting dynamic because it definitely picked up, for obvious reasons, during the pandemic. Yeah. So at an active user level, we saw a high in that timeframe. We're now getting back. It came off as live content came back, sports came back. It's coming back up off of that retrace. Right. But the 58% for us is an all-time high. Even our install base, even back during the peak time during the pandemic, in aggregate, our install base wasn't that active in streaming, so it is an upward trajectory. I don't know how high it gets. We hear right now from our users, about 25% of them or so tell us proactively that they've cut the cord. Probably there's some- probably some- Sure ... market stats around that. Yep. But what we're focused on is increasing the content availability on the platform, expanding the framework of how to search and discover content. There's so much content out there. You could argue there's a lot of clutter, and so making it a better experience for people to find the content they want, stay engaged with that content, that increases the probability we have a chance to monetize that time spent, and it's beneficial to them, and beneficial to us, and beneficial to our content and advertising partners. Right. Let's explore a couple of those topics. So content availability, what are you doing to drive content availability? Is it just a question of sort of deals with content providers or platforms, SVOD providers, or are you guys actually moving into, you know, developing your own content? Yeah. First and foremost, it's making sure we have across genres, across capabilities, all the major outlets, right, for content. Then we have our own fast channel offering called WatchFree+. Right. It's very similar to what you might think from a Tubi or a Pluto. Long-tail content, we have 290 channels spanning across every genre you can imagine on that platform, and a mix of both the FAST channels, and now we're adding libraries that we're licensing or sourcing for on-demand. So that could be movie titles as well as television shows. And so as a result of just bringing more content to the platform, it really helps us because we also understand, we have data that shows exactly what people are watching and consuming. We can understand if we're over-indexing or under-indexing in terms of a certain genre. So if we see a high propensity for a particular type of content, we can go source that content, bring more of it to that WatchFree+ platform, and increase the probability that people spend more and more time there, allowing us to serve more impressions. And we had Netflix in here yesterday, and they were talking about the ad market or the licensing market, and it does seem, you know, from the traditional guys that we cover, there's a lot more propensity. You know, they were all pulling back on content and holding it on for their own SVOD platforms, and now it seems like across the spectrum, there's a lot more licensing activity. Are you guys taking advantage of that? I mean, have prices come down, and is that something you guys can lean into to drive viewership? Yeah, possibly. I think there's a little bit of a difference there, though, because the only place that we really license or write checks for content is on that on-demand library piece. And so we're doing some of that. Is it all writing checks, or is there ad share potentials? Because that's what I think is fastest. That's where I was gonna go, exactly. Okay. That's the model we sort of frankly prefer, because if you think about our home, our home screen is a great promotion platform. It's a digital billboard right in the living room at the highest point of intent to view something. And so for our content partners, it's really valuable to promote either the show or the service that they're offering specifically. And we can do offers and different promotions on that platform as well. But what that does is creates awareness of the content's availability, and then it drives users into the various apps to then spend time there. Our WatchFree+ is, like I said, 290 FAST channels. Those are all – think about that as rev share. So if someone's willing to spend and promote, we can drive audience, get a lift in viewership. We serve ads, we make some money, they make some money, or we can proactively use our home screen to promote ourselves and drive audience into it, wherever that makes the most sense. And we can do that on a personalized level. We're back to the viewership data. We know a lot about what our viewers watch. We know how they use our TVs in total, not just what they stream. We can detect what video game console is plugged in and what title they're playing. So I know you play a lot of Call of Duty. Right. You're probably likely to watch this kind of show. I can promote that to you and increase the propensity that you, that you engage. Yeah. So could you talk about that a little bit? I think whenever we talk, we sort of explore this topic, and we certainly did last year, but that's sort of the ad tech stack and exactly the data that you're able to collect and how you're able to use that data. And do you guys think that you're, I don't wanna say exploiting it, because that comes out as sort of a pejorative word or sort of a negative word, but are you guys, you know, using all the data that you collect in the sort of way that you to maximize value? I mean, while keeping, you know, in mind all the privacy concerns people might have. Of course. Yeah, no, we're very strict on the privacy requirements and adhere to that very, very specifically. But it actually adds value to both the user and our partners on the advertising side and the content side. So for example, as I mentioned before, if we know there's a strong demand for a particular type of content, we can feed that appetite by sourcing content and bringing it to the platform, promoting it on the home screen, and driving that engagement. So it's a great value prop for the viewer because they're getting the kind of content they already have expressed that they're interested in. For the advertisers, we can then use that data and have customer segmentation-level data to then do and offer solutions around targeted advertising. Better ROI, you're reaching the right viewers. That is a really strong differentiator in terms of CTV versus linear television. That is data that linear television just has never had and never, never will. Great at reach, fantastic solutions at getting to 10, 15 million people at once, although harder and harder as even that audience is fragmented. But to come in and hit the right viewers based on what they watch, what the sort of profiling data would tell us, is really valuable, and I think a better experience for the viewers as well, because they're getting more relevant ads. Right. Sticking with the viewer experience, talk about the relaunch of the home screen. How big of an issue is this? I mean, how, from a user standpoint, what changed? What are the sort of key aspects of the new offering and- Yeah where it's come to where it is now? Well, it goes from the simple, which is just look and feel, just much more modern, much bigger, kind of what we call our hero banner at the top of the screen, just to promote content. We actually included motion in that as well, so it's not just a static image of Die Hard, the movie art, but it's actually maybe a little bit of an active scene that might engage you. We've put more call to action buttons and capabilities on the home screen as well, like, "Stream free now, watch now," these kinds of things. And that has actually increased the click-through rates that we've seen by about 60% versus the old home screen. So that's driving more engagement, drives people into content, creates this, again, value prop back to them. So that was a good part of it. We've enhanced the ability to monetize more elements of the home screen by creating categories based on genre. So if you think about how valuable it is for Disney+, for example, to promote a show or a movie on their service, on the home screen, well, that's presented to every household that may or may not be into that kind of content. But if you go into the animation or the kids and family category, and you're able to promote that same show or film in that environment, obviously, a much higher hit rate. And so that layering of the home screen capability is what drives incremental monetization. That makes sense. You also talked about better search and discovery. Is that by allowing people to sort of click through by genre, or is there other aspects to the search and discovery experience? Well, it's first and foremost what's promoted and kind of lifted up in front of them on the home screen when they turn on the TV and engage. So the carousel rotates and shows more content. Again, more personalization there enhances the search and discovery outputs. So a lot of what goes on is sort of understanding the viewer, using the data to then behave against that. We've included all the metadata across searches, so now you search for a particular movie, it'll show you all the places where it's available, the ones you subscribe to, the ones where you can buy it, you know, on- as an on-demand feature. So it just, again, just aggregates this behavior and help people find what they want, engage with it the way that they want to, and then give us an opportunity to drive monetization. Great. Let's talk about... Pivot to the sort of advertising market. Any sort of high-level thoughts that, you know, in terms of what you're seeing from buyers so far in the fourth quarter? Any sort of verticals that are weighing on the market or doing well, or just your overall impressions of the ad market as we look here? Yeah, look, so far so good. Fourth quarter has continued to be, you know, strong coming out of the third quarter, as you probably saw. Year to date, we've grown advertising 27%. Part of that is just our newness in the market and being able to kind of build out those relationships and flesh out the ad demand to access our viewers. And part of it is that, you know, we're able to bring better value to those advertisers. And so as we increase relationships, they're bringing more of their budgets, more of the planning process to us. Big categories like pharma, CPG, financial services, we saw really strong trends in Q3, and those have continued so far in Q4. Auto, while still growing, I think it was up about 60% in the third quarter, it was a little bit lower than CPG, which was up, you know, significantly triple digits. In the fourth quarter, we're still bracing for some slowness in media and entertainment, the M&E category. While it did grow for us in Q3, even though the strikes were underway, I think that speaks to the fact that they're bringing dollars to that home screen dynamic, and that that's a great way to source viewers and engage their existing subscribers. If, you know, if you're managing budgets and you're pulling back in total spend, maybe you don't spend on the wrapper around the bus or the billboard on the side of the freeway, but that in-home billboard, as I like to call it, is incredibly valuable. So that's where you should not pull money from. So I think that's probably showing up and helping us buffer against what's happening broadly in M&E. Got it. I mean, there's been a lot, you know, as connected TV has become. I I mean, so I think it feels early days, as you said, from where the dollars are versus where the viewership is, but it seems to be slowly maturing. I mean, are you, given all the players now, you know, Disney in a more aggressive way, Netflix, Amazon joining the party, I mean, is sort of more inventory in connected TV advertising good for you or bad for you? I mean, I can see it both ways. Yeah, look, I think right now, given sort of the newness of CTV, having more high-quality, value destinations for advertising brings advertisers into the fold more. So I think we're in the phase where it's probably a rising tide lifts all boats for a while. There will be a time down the road when it becomes competitive in terms of supply and demand dynamics, but right now, when you have that large pool of money sitting in linear, trying to find a home in CTV, there's limited fragmented audiences to reach in CTV. And so when you get bigger players like a Disney, like a Netflix, and even an Amazon, probably coming next year with a AVOD dynamic, that just gives comfort and credibility to the space on the part of advertisers. Right. If those big campaigns can move over and find viewers in CTV, it's really beneficial for everybody. How do you think of the OEMs, really, as positioned, you know, the TV manufacturers to capture share within connected TV versus the other guys? You know, how would you say that you're positioned? And you know, do you think even though you're seeing more competitors, you can grow that share over time? Yeah, look, I think it's a function of who has aggregated scaled audience. That's really, at the end of the day, that matters. And that's what we're really focused on, is continuing to grow our install base. You know, it's important that you can represent a large pool of viewers to advertisers. It's critical, right? We're now at 18 million monthly active users. We are one of the many scaled destinations. And the other comment I've made, I think you and I have talked about this, John, is this idea that, like, you have to remember that when you're looking at CTV, it's non-duplicated audiences. By definition, someone who spends all their time with Roku as their streaming solution is not on SmartCast, which is our streaming solution, and vice versa. So when you're an advertiser trying to reach 20 million people, you need to buy across multiple platforms. So as long as you're one of those large-scaled players, you know, you're gonna benefit from that. And so our focus is on driving that growth through our own branded, you know, VIZIO units. And I think you wanna get to this, but we recently talked that we're gonna show a willingness to expand and use our operating systems with other OEM manufacturers, because it just makes sense to take that investment we've made in developing our software, the capabilities we have, the investment we've made in the ad tech capabilities and the ad sales team against that, to then expand that as much as we possibly can. If it's a race to get living rooms, you wanna do it in a, in a multipronged approach. Yeah, I will get to that. But first, just finishing on advertising. Political, you mentioned political at the beginning. You guys had not been a player in political. Obviously, you know, we've had Fox here, and a couple of other companies talk about, you know, the opportunity in political as it, you know, over the next sort of twelve months. So how big could that be? I mean, what kind of a share do you think you can... I mean- Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, look, it's interesting. I think there's some stats out in the market that are predicting about $1.5 billion of political money coming to CTV specifically. Specifically earmarked to come into that market. And so, you know, we'll get our share of that. Hopefully, we punch a little bit above our weight, given our focus on it and the efforts we've put behind it to build relationships. But it's really just the early days of this. Yeah. I mean, the last political cycle, even we, as a company, weren't developed enough to be able to focus and really have a scaled effort around political, and CTV was probably still too new. But as you go forward, you think about the value of the targeting, the data around CTV, it's sort of all the benefits of lean-back linear television, plus the benefits of digital from a measurable and data standpoint. Put those two together, it can be a pretty powerful solution. Right. So as you mentioned, the potential to... or the shift in strategy to sort of license your OS- Yeah -to other TV manufacturers going forward, which I think is relatively new, correct? I mean- Very new for us. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So first, why don't we start at high level, so sort of why that sort of shifted strategy? Yeah, look, for a long time, you know, we were very focused on sort of having the integrated experience for the consumer. We had purpose-built software that worked with our hardware, and we wanted that sort of almost called, like, an Apple-like experience, where it's built and designed to work together. But over the years, we continued to refine and improve that operating system. As we do that, for our own purposes, we wanted to get it more efficient, run on less memory, just run on less processing power, because what that would do is have an impact on our build costs for our own hardware. And so as we did that, we said, "Well, now it's actually at a place where it might be able to function on other people's hardware who don't make the same level of investment in hardware," I mean, in memory and processing power, right? So you have a leaner, more efficient OS that can play on other people's hardware. Now, it opens up that as a possibility. And, you know, that market's largely been spoken for. I mean, all those players you know, you would think, like, oh, they're already partnered with Roku, or they're using Android. We've started to have some early conversations, and we were pleasantly surprised by the willingness to have deeper conversations about what this could mean. Do they want another partner? And frankly, maybe even a partner that thinks like they do. We're a hardware company at our core, right? I mean, that's the genesis of this company. And so to be able to speak the language and have that connection with other hardware players about how software can work together with the hardware to make the total product better, that's sort of a refreshing angle for them. And so we'll see where it goes. It's very early. We just announced on our earnings call that we were opening up this exploration- Mm-hmm to do this, but I think it's important from a TAM expanding standpoint. Right. I think it makes a ton of sense now that we've already made the investment in improving the software, to be able to be flexible to do this. It's a natural next step, and we'll see what those partnerships can look like. So, yeah, I would just say, I mean, again, kind of very early days, but, you know, how meaningful is an opportunity? How big could it be, or any way to just sort of frame the whole thing? And is there a way to sort of get an early look about how the economics may look in these type of agreements? Yeah, look, if you look at... This is really a U.S.-focused strategy. If you look- Okay At the U.S. market, U.S. sells through about 40-42 million units a year, growing in the low single digits. It's kind of the U.S. market. We're at about 11% market share of that ourselves. So to any extent we can tap into that and gain another couple hundred basis points or more, you know, and keep going from there by getting some of the output from these other manufacturers, it just expands it for us. So I think that's great. We're excited about what that can look like. The economics, again, TBD. I think the marketplace is gonna shift. I think there's a lot of money being made on the back end of hardware usage. We're all benefiting from the ARPU that we generate. Yep. and there's probably gonna be some elements of economic, you know- Sure ... share or incentive to partner. But still, again, the net positive, with the ROI as high as it is on a customer lifetime basis, it's you want as many living rooms as possible, and- Agreed ... may be willing to share some of the economics to make sure you get more living rooms. So, a fair number of players in this space, right? You have Google, Roku, Amazon. Yep. What... any thoughts about sort of entering the device market? You know, you're maybe becoming untethered from the TV, but I mean, I guess the OS is built for the TV, so like, on the device side, it wouldn't make sense. But how would you say that the VIZIO OS is sort of positioned against these other providers? When you say device, you mean like players- Yeah, exactly - and dongles and things? Yeah, I think our view has always been that that was a great interim technology to get people streaming quickly, but it's really, it's really the fading part of the market. You guys know what's attached to that. That was one of the things that was- Absolutely Interesting. You know what's attached to the TV. What are you seeing in terms of... I think you, you'd said over time that you're seeing much fewer sort of traditional set-top boxes attached to it, which is obvious. We are. We see that from cord-cutting. What are you seeing in terms of the device market? Yeah, fewer dongles. Yeah, we can detect anything that's plugged into the TV- Right ... and any content that's hitting the glass on the TV. So whether it's a, you know, Comcast set-top box plugged in, they're streaming NBC, we would know we can detect that. If there's a game console plugged in, and they're playing a particular title, I can detect that. Even if there's an external media player, Apple TV or Roku, I can detect that as well and what's hitting the glass because there's a fingerprint in the image that gets detected. The glass level in our software can pick that up and validate that back to a database. So that's kind of really how that happens, and that's why ours is so our data is so powerful because, you know, external players know what's streaming through that player, but once you switch inputs and go to something else, you go dark to them. We see the full picture. So if you think about a household, we can understand the customer profile much more deeply than others that are dependent on just the streaming content. It's a great angle from that perspective, but it's limited. So we're focused on that integrated experience. We want our software to live in the hardware. We want the hardware and software to work to be designed to work together, whether that's our own or someone else's. Those will be considerations about how we integrate with other manufacturers. Right. Let's shift back to the WatchFree+, FAST service. What kind of engagement are you seeing on the service? And, you know, you talked about the content. How are the trends been? Especially because it does seem, you know, the traditional media companies are sort of more and more focused on the FAST market. Yeah. I mean, FAST has surprised many, including myself. Like, I underestimated how powerful these apps would become. But I guess, when you sort of look back now, it kind of makes sense because it is a great value proposition for the consumer. It's basically free basic cable, right? Yep. And then you can save the money from cutting the cord and plow that into your higher profile, higher value SVOD services to, to wherever you want, right? And so, like I said, we have 290 channels now. That's up from about 270 a couple of quarters ago. So we're kind of every quarter adding more content there. On our platform, our WatchFree FAST app is the second most watched ad-supported on our whole platform. It's a top five app in total. So it speaks to it, right? And I think it fits well with our consumer. Our consumer is a value-conscious consumer. Most of our TVs, more than 50% of our TVs are sold through Walmart. So you think about kind of the consumer profile, they're looking for value, and that WatchFree+ product is a great value for them. Hopefully, as they understand that they can truly cut the cord and have that content, and then go seek out the specific pieces they want as a supplement, it really is an incredible value proposition. I guess you could, A, you could steer people to WatchFree+. Absolutely right from the home screen. Absolutely. Then with all that data, you know, where to go in terms of... So where can... I mean, at the same time, you know, you guys are, you know, investing in the space... Yep ... collecting all the data. You've got more competition. Again, Amazon, a lot of other companies sort of pushing more on the fact. Is to continue to grow that business, is it as a function of sort of just more content or sort of more targeted content that fits what your consumers need? Yeah. How do you continue to grow that business? I think, don't underestimate the power of when you own the, the platform, you own that home screen, and you own the app you want them to go into, there's a lot of value to that, right? We obviously distribute Pluto and Tubi and Amazon Prime on, on our platform, and many of those companies buy a lot of placement on our home screen to, to drive awareness of what they have on their service. But we also own it ourselves, and so we can sort of decide how to optimize that, and we're gonna certainly for, you know, sort of long tail, not exclusive content, I'd much rather have someone spend the time watching the Deal or No Deal channel on, on WatchFree+- Right than in Tubi, for as an example. So there are dynamics that favor the fact that we own that platform, we own that interface. It's our consumer that we're in front of. Right. In terms of Vizio Account, how many SVOD apps are on the platform today, and where will that reach at end state, and what is the sort of broader opportunity around platform piece? I'll give it a little bit. So we have about a little over 200 apps in total. Those, that's SVOD and- Yep And some ad-supported that are in there. You know, we have a little bit of a different approach than some. We don't have just a generic app store where people just throw in a gajillion different apps, and there's thousands and thousands of apps that probably aren't tested and verified and things of that nature. So we have a little bit more of a curated response, but we have every major app that you would think of on there. The Spectrum app is the one that we don't have. But there's other ways to get Spectrum to your TV using Chromecast or Apple AirPlay or things of that nature. So you're not--the consumer's not inhibited by that, but that's just one that we just haven't been able to bring to the platform. But really, it's the complete suite, and we're getting more and more of them embedded into our VIZIO Account capability, where you can then click to subscribe, and we can help the consumer manage their SVOD services, do the billing, remit back to the partners. We keep a piece of that. It's a really, you know, it's a great user proposition and great economics for us as well. Are there sort of other monetization opportunities as you gain more of a direct billing relationship with customers? Yeah, look, I think, I think one of the areas that's getting hot now and we're trying to explore it and figure out the right way is shoppable ads. We have some shoppable ad capabilities on the platform today. We're looking for partners to expand that. So whether it's content that's geared towards that, where it's like a golf destinations, and then they profile a particular club, and then you can click and work with a partner, that's all coming to the consumer living room. So different ways to engage them. I think that's an incremental monetization that is yet to come to fruition. Okay, turning to the device side, I think you've talked about focusing your efforts on larger screen TVs versus driving overall volumes. So what are the financial implications of sort of- Yeah - that strategy? Yeah, we've learned, again, going back to our, our data centricity, understanding usage behavior, we have a very strong picture of how people use various devices, right? So what we've learned is that, and it makes sense, that larger units tend to monetize at a much higher level. They tend to be the more, the main TV in the household. They're gonna be one where you're streaming more. So that shift makes the customer lifetime value much higher on those large units. Small units are still valuable, and so obviously, they will play a role. There's a really dramatic difference between the ARPU opportunity around a, say, a 50-inch or a 65-inch TV versus a 24-inch or 32-inch TV. We see a very significant gap between those two. As a result of that learning, we want to make sure that we have a strong product and market around the larger units, that we invest in our pricing strategies to increase the chance we move more of those units in the home, and generate that disproportionate ARPU that comes from that. Makes sense. So you guys went through sort of supply chain issues during the pandemic, then earlier this year, there was a sort of excess supply and, you know, impacting the business. Where are we now in terms of are we reaching some sort of equilibrium in the market? I'm hopeful. I don't think we've had a normal market since I've been here. I joined in May of 2020, and it's been- Got you ... one side of the pendulum or the other. And even this year, as, while the supply chain challenges were worked through, and there's really nothing to speak of there, and channel inventories are quite healthy, and, and everything's kinda reasonable from that standpoint, what emerged this year was this really extreme pricing strategies that were out there. We saw certain brands heavily, heavily discounted. They gained share at everybody else's expense, and consumer reacted to really extraordinary pricing on certain, certain products. We think that even that dynamics is, is gonna moderate. We're seeing signs of it already. We saw signs of it even around the holiday season so far, where some of that extreme pricing strategy has faded a bit. Okay, good. It's not sustainable. You know, it could have made sense at the moment if someone had particular supply dynamics or inventory dynamics, but we're just not seeing that be a long-term strategy. So we did lean back and lose a little share because we weren't gonna chase some of the pricing earlier this year. But with that normalizing now as we go into 2024, we're optimistic that maybe, maybe 2024 will be a more normal next year. Got it. And anything, as you look into 2024, anything to sort of highlight from a hardware roadmap or any changes to the business that you expect from the year, or just sort of a normalization? Yeah, I think, I think there's always some new technologies coming. There's always some picture quality improvements that we're, that we're working on. It's really, I think it's really software-led, you know, at this point. It's that user experience point that we're gonna continue to refine. You know, I think we have a really strong presence in retail channels. So being strong in the places where people buy TV. I think that's the thing people forget, is that, you know, being out in retail is critical. 80% of TVs are still bought through brick and mortar. If you're not present in the store with reasonable shelf share, you're just disadvantaged. Some of our competitors, which you mentioned, you know, take Amazon, for example, they're really limited because they're really only distributing their hardware through themselves and through maybe one retailer. They're not in the presence of where the majority of the market is selling through TVs. So, it's important for us to be in the right place and have the right partnerships, and we feel good about that going into 2024. Got it. So, piecing it all together, you know, that maybe the shift in the sort of device strategy, focus on larger devices and maybe better monetization from a customer standpoint, hopefully through some of the ad tech and the new home screen and some of the, you know, the engagement you're driving, how should we think of a margin expansion opportunity at the consolidated level, say, over the near to medium term at the company? Yeah, look, I think we're building on a lot of the ramp-up investments that we've made over the last several years. You know, not only going public in, back in 2021 and the build-out from that, the build-out we wanted to do on the software side, the build-up of the ad sales team. So I think we're finally nearing a place where some of that larger investment's behind us, so some of that can moderate. There's still justification and reasons why we need to keep fleshing out certain areas and certain capabilities, so I think you'll still see some continued growth in SG&A, particularly around engineering and software development. So that probably reduces the, the, the level of operating leverage that you would otherwise expect, but that's because we're building for future monetization opportunities, and so that will pay its ROI over time. But I, I still think, because you've got the bulk of the growth of the business is coming from the platform side, platform generates a roughly 60% gross margin. The hardware side has come, you know, the margins have come down, and that will sort of start to level off in terms of its level. So as the mix continues to shift towards high-margin platform, as a part of the overall consolidated business, it should support margin growth over time. That's great. Well, let's leave it right there, Adam. Thanks for being in. All right.