Okay, good afternoon. We're gonna get started. Quick disclosure statement: Please note that important disclosures, including my personal holdings disclosures and Morgan Stanley disclosures, all appear as a handout available in the registration area and on the Morgan Stanley public website. I'm Ben Swinburne, Morgan Stanley's media and entertainment analyst, and I'm really happy to welcome JB Perrette, the CEO and President of Global Streaming and Games from Warner Bros. Discovery. JB, thanks for coming out. Great to have me. Glad to be here. Absolutely. So we're gonna talk streaming and games, 'cause that's obviously your area of focus, and there's a lot to unpack there. But I wanted to start off with some maybe couple higher level questions- Yep. At the Warner Bros. Discovery kind of parent level. So, it's almost the two-year anniversary of the WarnerMedia Discovery merger, and certainly a lot has transpired at the industry and the company level since that deal was announced, let alone closed. How would you summarize what you and the broader team have been focused on the last couple of years, and how are you feeling about the outlook from here? Look, when we closed the deal, we said we were really gonna focus on, you know, three key things. And I think we've been hard at work trying to drive those three things. At the end of the day, also, this is a... Particularly on the scripted entertainment side, this is a long cycle business, and so it doesn't turn, the ship doesn't turn in 1/4 or 2/4. It takes time. But the first and foremost was a reinvigoration of being truly the home of the best storytelling. And while on, you know, the different segments of our business, HBO, and on the Max side, frankly, we've never been better. We've never had more content performing better than the last, you know, 12-24 months in the 50-year history of HBO, which is saying a lot. Yeah. On the theatrical side, I think we've had a much tougher time, but ultimately, we have two sets of leadership teams now and relatively newly in place over the last 12-18 months, looking to reinvigorate both the DC Studios side of the house, with James Gunn and Peter, who are ultimately hard at work trying to relaunch the DC Studios and make that a much more compelling piece of it, and we think there's a ton of opportunity there. And then, on the Warner Bros. Pictures side, Pam and Mike similarly are hard at work, and obviously, it's good to see the early fruits of some of that, even though this is not fully their slate yet. But, certainly the Dune opening this weekend was huge. Wonka, at the end of the year, was fantastic, and we've got a great lineup of additional content. So that reboot on the theatrical side is well underway, along with a number of new talent deals that the team has announced over the last several months. So we feel like reinvigorating the Warner Bros.' content story is there. On the TV production side, I think that one continues to be very consistent. We are a top producer and maker of content for a lot of the platforms in the business, so that is very rich. And we're, within the studio segment, doubling down on games, as an area where we think there's a lot more growth opportunity than content. Doubling down on being best storytellers in the world is one, operating more as one WBD team, which sounds maybe like a sort of adding much more analytical rigor to the decision-making process and taking it out of kind of the emotional, whose turf? And David and Gunnar and the whole team have done an incredible job of, you know, driving the company and the shareholder as the new kind of mantra for the entire team and organization. And you see that in things like, you know, marketing and cross-promotion. Historically, in the Warner world, teams didn't go after supporting bringing all the assets we have across our Turner portfolio, our linear networks portfolio, to support theatrical launches or game launches or Max launches, and now all of a sudden, everyone's rallying around that to drive that. Then, the third is obviously on monetization. And we are on the distribution and monetization of content, we are driving, you know, as fast as we can. We'll talk more about streaming, obviously, is a big part of that growth, but we're also making more disciplined and smarter trade-off decisions around windowing of content and exploitation of content, and not putting all our eggs in one basket, like was the previous mantra of putting everything only on streaming. We continue to believe in the theatrical window. We continue to believe in, obviously, Max... 'Cause, we obviously did bring on-- take on a lot of debt to make- Yeah. ...the combination happen, and we had to deliver on this. But I think the cost narrative has sort of been taken over as sort of that's purely what we've been doing, and the reality is that is a false narrative. What we've been doing is ultimately restructuring the business in a way that it needed to be done. Some of the examples of the siloed approach by the nature of two companies coming together was one level of synergies that we drove. Within each of the companies, and certainly within the Warner House, there was a much more siloed approach to this that needed to be broken down, and where you had duplication or triplication of activities, we're coming together and doing it smarter. So we spent a lot of the first two years just preparing ourselves to make smarter-... the second quarter of 2022, and we said on that call, we're launching HBO Max and become one of the top streamers in the world, but it would take a couple of years. And at the time, if you remember, and obviously in 2022, we lost almost $2 billion in streaming, and we said we were moving kind of the narrative that existed in the old media landscape to one of profitable growth as our key North Star. We delivered a $2 billion turnaround in 2023. So the profitable part was core and the first part of getting it right. We had to launch and design a new tech product with the launch of Max, which took us some time, which we did in the U.S. last May. Latin America successfully, and we're launching in Europe. But the growth piece of it, so the profitable growth piece of it, the growth piece of it, is now right in front of us. And as we think of the other key component, we laid out that August, which was trying to get to $1 billion of EBITDA, from the $2 billion loss in 2022 to $1 billion of EBITDA in 2025. We're confident that we're actually ahead of the plan on the profitability and that the growth is gonna come here over the next with, frankly, the best content lineup we've ever had, and launching new SKUs and new product experiences, like an ad-supported SKU in more markets internationally, so our penetration will continue to grow. So we're at the precipice, we think, of that delivering on that growth promise, and we think you people are gonna start seeing the building blocks. Comments on the streaming side in a minute. David, I think consistently on the earnings calls, talk about putting the company on a path to sustainable overall free cash flow growth. And I just wanna ask you, is that, is that what we should all be expecting or at least what success looks like at the end of the day for this company, as we look out over the next couple of years? Because obviously, the stock, you know, obviously, the stock is not reflecting a lot of that, I'd argue. Look, I think you've seen our discipline on the cash flow and the importance we put on that metric, for two reasons. One is, obviously, we've done, I think, an incredible job in the first 18 months, paying down the debt that we did take on to do the transaction, now under $40 billion of debt, under 4 times levered. So yes, that continues. I think Gunnar and David have said, you know, that is, from a capital allocation standpoint, continues to be our number one priority. But secondarily, we also understand that, you know, more cash we can generate, the more optionality we have to sort of figure out whether there's other things organically we need to invest in and continue to figure out ways to grow the business. And we think there's... For all the efficiencies that we've driven, we continue to see more benefits to drive materially healthier, both cash and cash conversion- Mm-hmm. that Gunnar has talked about. And so bo- Success in streaming. So let's talk about streaming, which is part of your, your team and, and your leadership. What's the opportunity for Warner Bros. Discovery in the streaming business? And I ask that because I look at the scale you have already. You have almost 100 million subscribers. It's a $10 billion business, and yet I think the market is still concerned that there's not a lot of profit potential there. So how do you- how would you tell us how you think about sizing up the opportunity for you? Look, I think a lot of it is... It's not one thing. Yeah. So, we have, and again, we're just about to, on the cusp of this, 6 or 7, what I call kind of growth vectors to drive that growth. And the profitability that will come with it, will largely come from, a lot of more revenue potential that we see over the course of the next, couple of years. But number one is the globalization. Today, Max is... As of a week ago, it was in 1 market, which is the U.S. only. We launched in 39 markets last week across LatAm, but we're in less than 50% of the addressable markets that our bigger peers are in. So we have over half the world still to go. And that includes major markets like, you know, 4 out of the 5 big European markets, all of Asia. And so globalization is probably the biggest single vector. 40%, 30% U.S., and 60% outside the U.S. So that international growth is gonna be a big part of it. The second is just the content lineup. Unfortunately, we launched Max in the U.S., and in the eight months following, for a variety of reasons, some that we knew about, some that related to the strike, we went into the, probably, the lightest content slate we've ever had. Mm. We came out of the end of two pay output deals for our film titles with Universal and Fox, down to one. We then signed a deal with A24 to come back to two that kicked off this quarter. So in the back half of last year, our Pay 1 movies were significantly less volume. Our Warner Bros. slate, other than Barbie, which was obviously a huge hit, but was lighter, and not as strong as we had hoped, but we feel a lot better about it going into 2024 and beyond. And then our original slate, partly because of the strike, we pushed out some titles that were supposed to be in the fourth quarter because we couldn't get the talent to help promote it, so they started more like True Detective in the first quarter. We had a much lighter slate in the second half of the year than we ever expected. And now when we look at the next 12, 18, 24 months, and we have all of our four biggest HBO tentpoles, last, House of the Dragon, Season Two coming in June. Next year, we'll have The Last of Us, Season 2, Euphoria, Season 3, The White Lotus, Season 3, as well as, you know, the strategy that Casey Bloys, my sort of partner on the content side, implemented, where he started going after bigger Warner Bros. IP in terms of originals. So less of the Winning Times or the Julias and more of a Penguin series, which will come this fall on Max, out of the DC Universe. A Dune series based on the obviously incredible success of the movies coming. It, the Stephen King series, The Conjuring. So we have a lot more, kind of, what we call four-quadrant, appealing to everybody, big, known IP coming. So content is another vector. Product experience continues to get better. We've made a lot of improvements from where HBO Max was to where we are today. The App Store rating to go to get to great. But we have a roadmap that continuously improves the product and the surfacing and the discovery of products, which will help us with engagement and should help us reduce churn. We're launching Ad- Lite, the ad-supported tier. We just launched—we were previously in only the U.S., we're now in 39 markets in LatAm as of last week. We're launching in a bunch of European markets as we go into the second and third quarter. And password sharing crackdown, which obviously Netflix has implemented extremely successfully. We're gonna be doing that, starting later this year and into 2025, which is another growth opportunity for us. And so—launch— Right. Obviously, we're not quite at the same scale, but we think there's, you know, relative to the scale of our business, it's a meaningful opportunity. Great. You know, I often get asked about the long-term margin potential of all these streaming businesses, but including yours, and I, I think yours is one of the most interesting to try to think through. Because we can look back not that far long ago to a HBO segment at this company that generated $2 billion of EBITDA. About the opportunity set for the business, are those relevant facts to think about as we try to assess the opportunity for you guys? I mean, look, if you, if you stuck to what that business would look like today, if we had just stayed with it, let's just say- It wouldn't be $2 billion. It wouldn't look anything like that. Yeah. So there's no question this is the right pivot. And by the way, you know, I mean, there was an article written yesterday saying it was two billion, and we were in 54 million households. Just to be clear, HBO by itself was never anywhere close to that. I think it peaked around mid-30s. Right. You know, we have surely the ambition to get back to that. Yeah. You know, when we think in 12 months, we went from... You're right, an extreme of having dropped almost $5 billion between that profitability profile and where we were in 2022. Yeah. $5 billion, which is crazy. We feel like the fact that we, in 12 months, have cut that in half, is fantastic. As I said, ahead of where we thought we would be when we made the predictions of what we, our targets were, back in the summer of 2022. Over time, we remain very bullish. I think Gunnar has said we believe that the, the segment profitability over the medium term can be, in the sort of 20%. Yeah. And so if you imagine, you know, we're at $10 billion today, if you imagine, you know, we'll be higher than that over the next couple of years, you can see a path easily to the $2 billion and north of that over time. Longer term, look, I continue to be very bullish on, you know, as the industry continues to rationalize- Yeah. Fewer players, you know, a more rational content spending, more rational pricing, and fewer players doing what I'd call irrational deals, both on the retail and the wholesale side, that, you know, the profile of this business can be extremely healthy, and over time, even north of the 20% range. Do you still see subscriber growth potential domestically? Obviously, internationally, with the new markets, but in the U.S., you still think you can grow subscribers? Yeah. I mean, the thing to remember about the U.S., which some people looked at, again, have looked at externally and said: "Oh, but, you know, they used to be- we, we hit a reported peak of about 55 million subs in the U.S., and, and we reported for the fourth quarter, we were at 52." And people say: "Oh, we- you know, well, they've lost subscribers." Well, just again, to be very clear, back in this August 2022, we said: We're gonna put these products together. There's 4 million subs that are overlapping between the two products. Discovery. Now we're talking Discovery. Discovery Plus and HBO Max at the time. Majority of those in the U.S., we're gonna lose probably a majority of those subscribers that are overlapping.... And number two, which is, you know, less of an issue today than it was a year ago, and will be less of an issue, but it's still an issue, is obviously the legacy HBO business still has a legacy wholesale, linear wholesale business- Yeah. which has been similar to the pay-TV ecosystem, losing subscribers. Luckily, that's been abating, but that is a bit of a headwind that we face. And so, we think our penetration at 52 million subs still puts us in the very top tier- Sure ... of services out there. We're not surprised that we lost some subscribers in the U.S. because of the reasons we just described and that we outlined, eighteen months ago. And we ultimately feel, that, yes, there is potentially some opportunities for further penetration growth. It won't be overnight, and it won't be- you know, we're not gonna add 10 million subs, you know, in a heartbeat. But, we are looking at different opportunities, particularly our ad-supported SKU, we think is under-penetrated, in the market. So we're gonna lean in there. We've been leaning in there with partnerships, like the Verizon bundle that's pushing Max plus Netflix together, which is an ad-supported offering. We're in conversations with others about trying to do a similar type of, offering, pushing the ad-supported SKU. We think there's more opportunity, particularly in that lower-priced SKU, to drive penetration. Ultimately, as the mix continues to change from wholesale to retail, there's an ARPU benefit, an arbitrage that is happening, as we may lose some further wholesale subs, but we are gaining and making up some of that mix on the retail side at higher ARPUs, with higher and more control of those subscribers and pricing of those subscribers over time. Makes sense. What role does sports play on Max? That's been a product that you've layered in, you know, pretty nicely over the last couple of quarters. Well, I heard Lachlan gave out the whole business plan. Let's not go to the JV yet. I'm talking about on Max. On Max, look, we launched sports on Max, our sports on Max back in the fall. And what we found is a couple things: A, is every month obviously, it's a new proposition, and new not only to Max subscribers, but somewhat new in the sports streaming. I mean, obviously some of the other players do it, but it was new, certainly, to our subs. And we've built the awareness, and the awareness for sports on Max has grown month to month to month, but it's still relatively low. We still have, you know, sort of around 20% of the base that's aware, and so we still have a lot of headroom on building awareness for sports on Max, number one. Number two is not surprising, which kind of gave birth to our thinking around this venture. It's great to have our sports on Max, and it's super serving a fan base that is every month spending also more time with sports. But if you're a real sports fan, you want more, and the U.S. landscape is really unlike any other country in the world. Everywhere else in the world, generally, it's not as fragmented and not as splintered as it is here in the U.S. And so, it is one where aggregation is super powerful, and can provide, you know, meaningfully, I think, more opportunity for us and the partners, as we think about, and that's really gave birth to our sports venture conversation. But, we found it to be, you know, so far, very successful, building awareness and growing month to month, and we're about to launch, arguably our biggest content in that sector, with March Madness coming to Max later in this month, and obviously the NBA playoffs- Yeah. ... coming later in the spring. So our lineup gets stronger as we get through the next few months. Then over time, as we finalize the venture and the structure of the venture, we'll figure out what exactly we do with our sports offering on Max in relation to the sports offering on the venture. Okay. David mentioned on the earnings call that you're having constructive conversations with the NBA. I'm just curious if there's a plan to have the NBA distributed more broadly on Max or play a bigger role on Max long term? Look, I defer. I don't have much more to add than what David said. It's obviously been probably the longest-standing partnership in sports, in any sports in the U.S. and arguably in many other countries. So we have a great relationship with them, and those conversations continue to be very constructive, so... But I think, you know, what we do with our sports on Max is sort of somewhat separate from what happens to the rights and the renewal conversations. So it's related, but they're not directly related. Okay, got it. Let's go back to your, your 6-7... I'm impressed you can remember 6, 6-7 vectors. That's, that's better than I can do. You mentioned global, so let's talk about international. I thought it was interesting that you guys are launching Max in many markets this year. A lot of your competitors are either in a sort of status quo or actually pulling back from international. So can you talk about Latin America, which you just launched, your plans in Europe? Why does it make sense for Warner Bros. to push Max globally, when, you know, for a lot of companies, it's been hard to scale- Yeah ... internationally? So, I think we definitely will continue to keep a rational, disciplined approach to it. We did say, I don't want to sound like a broken record, but in August of 2022, we said- You did ... we will launch in markets where we believe, over the course of 3-5 years from launch, that we can actually be a top three streaming service and profitable. And if we don't have high conviction we can get there, we, we'll license, and we'll continue to license. So two extremes that I'd say we look at, a market like India, where we've extended a long-term partnership in that market with, with Reliance and with, now the, the combined bigger company soon. In that market, we love India, we love the dynamics of that market, but we couldn't, as we looked at it, find a way to think that we could actually, given the amount of money that's being spent on local content, particularly, that we couldn't reliably launch, in a way that we think we could meet those criteria. So we've continued to extend, multiyear license deals and just take the economics out of the market and put that to use elsewhere. If you think about other markets, like two big Anglo markets, U.K. and Australia- Yeah. Our content travels extremely well. We know how well our content does on both existing legacy platforms, and it drives a significant amount of the viewership. So the demand is there, and there's unquestionably an easy access, because ultimately, we don't have a huge amount of local originals we have to invest in. There's not a lot of other costs. And so those are markets where we are very confident. We have high confidence we can actually meet the criteria of being successful in a relatively short period of time as we launch. The other vector, by the way, that I didn't mention in those 6-7, is partnerships, and we have long-standing partnerships with two players in those markets, and this is true about a lot of other markets in the world. We are working actively with them and to help us launch our product. Right. But dropping off to, you know, building literally from zero, a direct-to-consumer business. But ultimately, no, with a partner who can help you get immediate scale and backstop you with real economics on the revenue side, make it such that transition is a very smooth transition to getting you more scale and subs, which is part of the reason to your question about why we feel we have to launch, because this is a scale business. Yeah. At the end of the day, in markets where we think we can deliver good, healthy, meaningful scaled growth, and profitably, we'd be crazy not to do it. In some of those markets, we feel like we're leaving money on the table. Yeah. Makes sense. I believe the Latin America launch was a relaunch, right? Max was launched in Latin America by, I think, the prior owner. HBO Max was. HBO Max, yes. What did you do differently, just other than drop the HBO and now it's Max, but the go-to-market, did you do things differently, and what should we expect? It's really three things that are the most material. Yes, the brand change is one. The content proposition, so in that market, the legacy Discovery content, all of our nonfiction content, other than in Brazil, had never been on a streaming service. So unlike the U.S., where obviously Discovery Plus was in the market and HBO Max were, in every market in LatAm, outside of Brazil, Discovery's content had never been in streaming at all. So the proposition got way broader and way bigger. Remembering that in that market, you know, things like you know, kids, which is obviously an important element, it's probably our strongest region for kids, where between Cartoon, Cartoonito, and Discovery Kids, both of which were leading pay-TV services, we now have a leading kids' proposition across those two, as well as all the lifestyle, factual, reality show content that comes with it. So the content proposition got much broader. And then the third thing we've done is reinvigorate the partnerships conversations. And so what you'll see over the next several months is a lot more bundles with all ranges of existing customers new mobile and broadband partnerships, as well as new distribution partnerships with the likes of non-traditional distributors in those markets. I think those are the three main drivers. Remembering that the wholesale partnerships in a region like LatAm, where credit card penetration and billing is a major, Right. ... challenge, are, you know, it's super helpful to have those partnerships. The last thing, just to give you a real example of something- I haven't gotten to 6, but I at least got 4 there... People are more price sensitive. We obviously are trying to get churn down as we go, and part of the benefits of having an annual subscription- you know, $80 in one go, or $100 in one- And sure enough, we've seen a material, just in the last 7 days since we launched, a material improvement in the percentage of people taking annual subscriptions. So that business, I think, grew 50%, I believe, year-on-year, last quarter. What are you guys doing from a, in a, just a tech and in that business, and how do you size sort of the opportunity for advertising? You're gonna think I only have numbers in my head, but that's all we think we're subscale here. Part of that is the rollout internationally of more in more markets, so the scale piece of it. The second is partnerships. We're driving partnerships to try and help us scale. So that's the Verizon example. And again, in a market like the U.S., where we think in particular, that's probably our best opportunity for growth. We're in conversations with a number of other partners like that. We are very light in terms of our ad load. We just generally do 3-4 minutes of ads. We just started inserting. You know, when we came into this business in 2022, there were no ads at all on HBO content, at all. We just started implementing ads in the HBO content starting in the February of 2023, so a little more than a year ago. And so we think that opportunity, from 3-4 minutes, when you look at some of our peers here in the U.S., who are doing more like mid- to high single-digit number of ads, we're gonna keep it balanced because we don't wanna, obviously, hurt the user experience. But we think there's opportunity there. And then lastly, on the ad format side, we've made lots of improvements from where we were, but we still have a lot of ad format enhancements, which ultimately will give us more things that we can go to marketers with. You know, shoppable ads, other elements of the ad format side of the house that we can improve, which should give us more opportunities for growth as well. Great. Okay, so you are global streaming and games. We've saved five minutes for games, so I feel bad for the games group. But you're the only media company that has a scaled, Having 11 owned studios, where we're not obviously just a publisher of games, but we are actually a developer of games. Yeah ... we think is a differentiated asset for us. Today, the majority of our business revolves around four main forms of IP, and games, which are all billion-dollar-plus businesses themselves. Which is Mortal Kombat, Game of Thrones, Harry Potter, with obviously our success of Hogwarts Legacy last year, was the bestselling game in the world last year, and the DC world. And DC obviously has subsegments underneath there, but Batman being one of the biggest. So those are our four that make up the majority of our business. The challenge we've had is our business historically there has been very AAA console-based. And so, you know, as you know, that's a great business when you have a hit like Harry Potter. It makes the year look amazing, and then, you know, when you don't have a release or unfortunately, we, we also have disappointments, as we just released Suicide Squad this quarter, which was not as strong. It just makes it very volatile. We think the opportunity for us, which is... You know, again, this is a multiyear, 'cause it's games, it's certainly a bit of a long cycle business, too. Yeah. But the opportunity is to take those four franchises and be able to develop a much more holistic approach, particularly around expanding into the mobile and multi-platform free-to-play space, which could give us a much better and more consistent set of revenue. And you'll see us launching, later this year, some mobile free-to-play games, which we hope will start building that. And then secondarily, live services. So rather than just launching a one kind of one-and-done console game, how do we develop a game around, for example, Hogwarts Legacy or Harry Potter, that is a live service, where people can continue to live and work and build and play in that world on an ongoing basis? And so we think we've got the franchises, we've got some of the greatest studio capabilities, and we have a roadmap and a strategic investment plan to try and build out that business. We think there's meaningful growth, you know, over the course of the next couple of years. Is there evidence in your mind, or strong evidence that, that the sort of franchise piece of this really reinforces the key IP that you have? In other words, having a Harry Potter game and having Harry Potter films and owning your own studio, that all that together makes the business more valuable? We do, we do, because it's ultimately, you know, about trying to keep franchises. And we literally just hired someone to come in and help us sort of overall WBD, help us think about franchise management in a new, bigger, more consistent way. But absolutely, it's not just the expanding the longevity and the life cycle, so that you're not going from, you know, a movie release of a Batman title one year, and then sort of it goes dormant for three or four years. If we can execute on this strategy, it also allows that franchise to live on day to day, week to week on a much more consistent basis. So you're nurturing that fan base. And by the way, what you can do with that fan base then, both in terms of experiential, TV, movies, et cetera, you can monetize in new and different ways. But ultimately, we're also bringing those franchises to younger generations, as you see, obviously, the demographic of the gamer population generally skewing younger than some of the other media forms. Sure. It helps bring on a whole new generation at the same time. So both of those have enormous value to us. Got it. All right, last two questions as we wrap up here. You have a $1 billion target for OIBDA at D2C next year, 2025. If you could talk a little bit about your confidence in delivering that, and also your confidence in the streaming and gaming business driving overall growth for the company over the longer term. Yeah. Look, we never expected to hit profitability this fast. So, I'd say generally on the trajectory, we feel very good about it, and for all the reasons we talked about earlier, in terms of where we see revenue opportunity, it's not a sort of squint and you will see it. Right. It's like a, "It's coming, and we have it." And so I think we feel very good about that on the profitability side, and the $1 billion. What were the other ones? I was just gonna ask you about just longer-term growth and driving the games and streaming business, driving EBITDA and free cash flow for the overall company. Well, I think, I guess on the streaming side, I'd say this as well, is there's a lot of punditry, particularly in the last 10 days, out there, trying to look at the state of the industry and interpret it as though it's the bottom of the ninth inning. Right. We fundamentally disagree. It's certainly on the WBD side, for all the reasons we just talked through, we have a number of different vectors that are not theories, but are practice and that we're executing on, that will help us deliver that growth. So we're very optimistic about what can happen. The longer term potentials of the margins in that business, we think are exciting. Games... Look, games is still more in an earlier stage of the development cycle, and it does take a few more years, so that one's less of a, you know, you'll see all the building blocks in 2024, 2025, 2026, like you will on streaming. But we think, we're doing the right things now to lay the foundation for more of a 2025, 2026, 2027 kind of timeframe- Yeah ... of more growth on the games side. Great. Well, it's a good thing equity analysts aren't pundits. Otherwise, I think you'd be accusing me of some punditry. Thank you, JB. Thanks, Ben. Thanks, everybody. Thanks, everybody. Finish your-