Good day, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the Barloworld's pre-close trading update. All attendees will be in listen-only mode. There will be an opportunity to ask questions impromptu. If you should need assistance during the call, please signal an operator pressing star and then 0. Please note that this event is being recorded. I'd like to hand the conference over to Mr. Dominic Sewela. Please go ahead, sir. Good afternoon, everybody. As per usual, just before pre-close, we, you know, have issued a trading update for the 5 months. I think, you know, last month, you know, at the just at AGM, we also did give a trading update. You know, we're mindful that, you know, at the point in time, it was just a status we're giving more color, you know, to this trading update in terms of, you know, numbers. You know, I, I think most of you are aware that, you know, globally and locally, there's a lot of, you know, headwinds, you know, and largely, you know, we've seen it with most of our customers, you know, in the mining sector in particular, that, you know, with the, you know, commodity downturn, you know, they've actually, are impacted but notwithstanding, you know, given the fact that in South Africa as well, we've had our own challenges, you know, and, those relating to some of the issues that we've highlighted, you know, in the trading update, you know, such as, you know, issues around the electricity supply, you know, the logistical bottleneck Transnet, you know, high interest rates, you know, those are some of the issues that we, you know, you know, we are also facing because our customers are going through that. But it's also pleasing to see that Mongolia, on the other hand, has defied you know some of these conditions. And largely due to the opportunity to China, Mongolia has actually done very well. You'll all remember just you know before just literally after closing, we've received an order from an MAK that is being delivered. And there is a lot of commodities that are being exported out of Mongolia to China given the proximity to the border. But having said so, we remain to have challenges you know in our VT area you know and things obviously in terms of sanctions continue to be moving tighter and tighter you know and therefore you know this is expressed by our turnover where we're down 5.5%. If you exclude Russia, we would have been down 4% down, in terms of revenue, you know, the EBITDA, you know, we're down 2.5% as indicated in the trading update. I think, you know, it's important to note that, you know, in the downturn in business, you know, you still have, you know, elevated inventory that we're, you know, delivering against, you know, but, you know, when you look at the decline as well. That largely indicates, you know, the fact that you're not seeing orders coming through from a mining point of view. Under normal circumstances, when you have elections in a country, you know, the governments tend to spend a lot of money in infrastructure, but you're not seeing the same, you know, in this particular environment. So, the bulk of the construction work that's coming through is still through the private sector and the energy sector, you know, but our equipment business has been, you know, impacted at the revenue line, you know, and particularly on machine sales, you know, the parts side, you know, remains, you know, relatively strong. But I guess from a margin point of view, there is a squeeze in that area. I'm pleased to say our battery business, you know, has delivered, you know, pretty well, you know, but also we need to take into account that, you know, we go through the cycle. And to that extent, I think, you know, equipment business is going through an optimized phase, you know, and we're Andronicca and the team are looking at how best to optimize, you know, but be mindful that it's a cycle. It also turns. You know, you don't wanna make sure that you cut the muscles in that business, but if ever there's any excess fat that you need to address, you know, you know, and already spoken about Eurasia, you know, Mongolia, you know, significantly up, you know, 40%. But it's also important when you talk about, you know, Mongolia is the base at which you're looking at because in 2020, you know, 2022, it was a low base, you know, you know, there were exceptional items that related, you know, to the parts sales in that business, you know, you know, that you know has reversed now that you're actually seeing activity, and I've spoken about VT. Ingrain, you know, by and large, you know, you know, that business reflects, you know, consumer, you know, confidence, you know, and given the fact that, you know, consumers in South Africa in particular are quite challenged, you know, we've seen some of our customers domestically, you know, reducing their volumes, you know, whether it be alcoholic beverage, you know, spray drying, confectionery, and the paper sector, you know, and you know, exports do not deliver to our expectation, given the fact that, you know, we've had the bottlenecks, you know, in the line. So I think overall, I can go on and talk about the stuff that we have no control over, you know, but I think from a control point of view, what we need to focus on is the levers that we can pull. To that extent, we've declared Section 189 in the Ingrain business, you know, we continue to invest, you know, in the CapEx. You know, the business is more on the fixed mode, you know, to make sure that we are able to reach a trajectory that, you know, we've looked at. I think, you know, given the fact that we have got a very high, you know, interest rate environment, you know, the focus for us as we go through the downturn, you know, is to use the cash out of the, you know, working capital in the equipment business and focus on allocating capital to paying down the debt. And then obviously, from a strategic point of view, you know, our fixed optimized growth strategy remains unchanged. To that extent, you know, I will pause here and take any questions that, you know, we may have. I have, you know, some of the, you know, executives of the divisions, in, you know, equipment South Africa, Eurasia, as well as Ingrain, with me. I've got the FD in the room with me as well. We can take questions. Thank you. Thank you, sir. Ladies and gentlemen, we will now be conducting the question-and-answer session. If you would like to ask a question, please press star then one on your telephone keypad or the keypad on your screen. A confirmation tone will indicate that a line is in the question queue. You may press star two to exit the question queue. Our first question comes from Paul Steegers of Nedbank. Please go ahead. Yeah. Thank you, operator. Hi, Dominic. I hope you can hear me. I'm struggling to hear you. Can you hear me properly? I can hear you very well. I'm sorry, you know, that we can't. Can you hear me now, Paul? It's a little bit better, yes. Thank you. Thank you, Dominic. Thanks for the time. Yeah. I'm fine too. I have two questions. Yeah. Thank you. Two questions, starting with Equipment Southern Africa services, South Africa, Southern Africa. You mentioned that the margins in parts, aftermarket parts, is under some pressure. I'm just wondering if you can talk to that a little bit more in terms of the pricing environment and why there's some pressure there. And then also on the service levels, the aftermarket service, the productivity is a bit lower. I'm just wondering, given your being focusing a lot in getting more of those maintenance contracts in with customers, preventative maintenance, etc., why the service productivity is so much lower as well. So just, yeah, that's the first question on equipment services South Africa. Thanks. Yeah. Paul, yeah. You know, I'll just highlight that, and Andronicca will add. I think, you know, we've seen it over, you know, the last 17 years that I've been involved with this business, that, you know, whenever you have a downturn, you do get pressure from the customers, you know, saying they're going through a pain, you know, and therefore they expect us to assist in some other areas. And, you know, obviously, you don't want your customers to be parking their trucks, you know, to an extent that they remain productive, you know, in their minds, be it, you know, reworking some of the stocks, or, you know, working the overburden, you know, you do end up, you know, do compromise and say, "Okay. Fine. In this market, you know, how do you, you know, come" and then obviously, you know, the margin becomes an issue. And then maybe Andronicca, just wanna comment on the productivity side. Yeah. Thanks, Paul, for the question. So, about 25%-30% of our workforce is technicians. Those are people who are saving time by touching the equipment. Now, what we've seen in the slowdown, particularly in the coal, platinum, iron ore space, we're seeing machines being parked. And therefore, although over the years since 2020, we have seen more equipment, that equipment is being parked and has service and maintenance is required. But, we for now, we've taken a view that, you know, it takes longer to train those technicians. As Dom said, we don't want to be cutting the muscle. And, we're still keeping those technicians, with the hope that, you know, when things but we will be assessing as we progress to see how the market evolves. On the margin side, if I can add, Dom did mention that, you know, pressure with customers pushing back on inflationary adjustments. That is mainly in the space of large global accounts customers where, you know, the price adjustments that we expected to kick in late last year were pushed out. We are still in negotiations to get some of those costs buzzing through. But given what these customers are going through at the moment, it's becoming very difficult really to conclude the negotiations in the timelines that we had hoped for. Thanks. Thanks, Paul. Thanks, and thanks, Andronicca. My last question is on Ingrain. You've talked about a restructuring process to lower the fixed cost base. Can you talk about that in terms of, you know, how big a proportion of the costs are fixed costs? How much cost savings would you hope to achieve from the process? And are there any exceptional costs that you think will be incurred to drive this restructuring process? Thank you. Yeah. Paul, you know, because I mean, you know, I'm respectful of the negotiations that we are having, you know, with the labor unions currently. When you declare Section 189, you'd appreciate, you know, that, you know, we engage, you know, in good faith with the negotiations. I'd rather defer, you know, not that I'm not. I don't have an answer. I'd prefer to defer that, you know, when we see you again, you know, in May, you know, where I progress the discussions, you know, because it's to go through Section 189 in this environment where just generally the country is going through. So, you know, if you don't mind, you know, I'd rather not, you know, get into that point. Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Dom. Okay. Thanks. Our next question comes from Marc Ter Mors of SBG Securities. Please go ahead. Thank you. Good afternoon, everyone, and thank you for the update. Two questions as well, if I may. The first one is on the Ingrain business. Could you provide any further update on the progress with resolving the plant issues or the mill issues that were there before? So in other words, to what extent were the flattish volumes due to supply hindrances or only due to consumer weakness? And then the second question on equipment, particularly mining equipment, order book down quite a bit in Southern Africa. Can you comment further on what you see in the pipeline in potential new orders for new mining equipment? Thank you. Thanks, Marc. I will let Chris. I'll start with Chris, and then Andronicca will cover the second point on order book. Chris. Yeah. And Paul, thanks for—I'm sorry, Mark, thanks for the question. I think just in terms of volumes, we are seeing a bit of a slowdown in demand. It's probably more on the demand side than on the supply side coming through. We have seen us holding some inventory levels in the business, which I think is a good thing 'cause it means that we're able to satisfy customer demand out of inventories rather than selling production slots. So I think we have seen some stabilization in the plant performance. The other area that is also impacting volumes or holding back volumes has been our ability to export through the port of Durban that Dominic alluded to earlier and also just very soft international starch prices at the moment. Thanks, Mark. On the order book pipeline, I'll just give you a view on the big opportunities in Southern Africa that we've been working on. In Namibia, there is a gold mine project that we are chasing. We're expecting a decision to be made towards the end of this year, at least. So it's something that's not in the order book but an opportunity that we are actively chasing. Similarly, in Botswana, there is a coal mine project. And the good thing with that coal mine is that it's for domestic consumption to power their power stations, you know. It's one opportunity that we're also pursuing aggressively. In Africa, there's another coal project that we were looking at, license issued by this negotiations, around offtake agreement. So again, once that is concluded, it's, it's something that we are hoping that we'll convert into an order book. And then in Zambia, Mopani is in the process of restarting that mine. It has been under care and maintenance for some time after Glencore pulled out. They've secured new investors. And again, another area that we're chasing. Mopani in the past used to be a key client for the Zambia operation. And if that project kickstarts, we're hoping that we'll also get our unfair share of the purchases in the industries. Thanks. Thank you very much. Appreciate the discussion. Thank you. Our next question comes from Brent Madel of Absa. Please go ahead. Yeah. Thanks very much. Dominic, unfortunately, the line for me wasn't that clear. But I would like to just go through the issues again about the lower operating margins within the aftermarket part of the business within Equipment Southern Africa. And just to clarify, so if you can just go clarify the point with regards to the technicians and the productivity around technicians, if you wouldn't mind. Yeah. Andronicca, you wanted to speak loud. Just, you know, Brent, just to say if ever you can hear Andronicca. Can you hear me, Brent? Yes. That's much better. Thanks very much, Dominic. Okay. Thanks, Brent. Can you hear me? Yeah. Yes. Thanks very much, Andronicca. Yeah. So, earlier on, I indicated that 25%-30%—it depends on where we are in the cycle of our workforce—is technicians. These are people that are on a payroll. We pay them a salary, and they charge time as they work on the equipment. Given the fact that we've seen such a rate of machines being parked, particularly in areas that are impacted mainly where the commodity prices have dropped: coal, platinum, and iron ore, we're finding that we've got more hands but less machines to touch at this point in time. And that is impacting our operating margin because under normal circumstances, you know, they would be working on the machine, and the time spent would go against the turnover that is being recovered for the maintenance work. Andronicca made, you know, Brent was around, you know, this, you know, cyclical environments. You know, you sometimes, you know, are quick to cut, you know, the cost. And then when it's so quick, you know, it takes a while to actually recruit and find, you know, technicians, particularly if they've been through a process of retrenchment and they become skeptical to come back to the organization. Our view is that we always try and hold on to them because it takes a lot to invest in technician. And I think that's a point that was made earlier. Thanks very much. If I could just ask a follow-up question just related to that, just in terms of your activity levels, particularly, as I say, on the aftermarket side, to what extent is that being impacted by the knock-on effects related to, you know, the Transnet and rail issues that the miners are feeling? I mean, are you seeing a close correlation there between your activity levels and the disruptions caused by the railway lines? Yeah. Definitely. South Africa is impacted the most, if you look at the overall region. And, over and above soft top commodity prices that we're seeing, we know that in South Africa we've got added domestic challenges in Transnet. A number of our customers have engaged us on plans to slow down production on the basis that they've run out of space to store power. And yes, what you're seeing here, it's a reflection of the Transnet impact plus the commodity prices. If I could just ask two further questions. One, if you wouldn't mind commenting on the high margins within Equipment Mongolia, just the reasons for their high level of margins and any indications of whether you think this may be sustainable in the short term. And just my last question, you paid down ZAR 1.3 billion worth of maturing debt. I just wanted to know whether you could comment on whether this reduces the likelihood of you paying a special dividend later on in the year. Yeah. I guess, you know, let me get Emmy first. You know, Emmy on Mongolia? Yeah. Thanks. Thanks, Brent. If you look at the performance of Mongolia, also supported by the aftermarket, which had more than 20% growth. But if you look at the machine sales as well, we had more than 40% growth. And, and hence, with the margin realization, good discipline in terms of cost control, we are seeing very good margins. Now, going forward, we will be delivering more machines. As indicated previously, we will start seeing that high margin coming down but also stabilizing at, at the relatively higher, op margin. Thanks. Okay. I think, you know, Brent, you know, for me, I think we've gotta be realistic because I think the prioritization for me is that in this current environment where interest rates remain very high, you know, my priority is to say, from a gross debt point of view, you know, I'd like to optimize paying down the debt, you know, and to a level where it gives us, you know, a margin of safety to operate in this environment. I think it's realistic to rather talk about not special, but, you know, we've got a dividend policy that will cover, you know, normal dividend. I think, you know, it's safe to say I wouldn't be thinking about obviously. The board can take a view, but my view is that, you know, specials. I can, you know, think about. Great. Thanks very much. Our next question comes from James Twyman of Prescient Securities. Please go ahead. Oh. Hello. Hi, James. Hello. Good. Yes. Hi, hi there. Thanks very much for the call. I've got three questions. The first one is, could you say, you know, what the cash balance is now in Russia, 'cause you must be generating significant cash now and whether there's any plan to repatriate that. And if you did, where would it go to? Yeah. James, I think, you know, one of the key issues that we had mentioned, I mean, because of the tightening sanctions, you know, we've utilized the cash to procure inventory to be able to sustain us during this environment. I mean, but that's indicative of our ability to be able to have procured that inventory. So, as we are unwinding the inventory, then we will be repatriating the cash. But fundamentally, remember what I just said to Brent now. You know, my priority in this environment, I mean, depending on what your outlook is, you know, in terms of, you know, interest rates in South Africa in particular, you know, if they remain at these elevated levels, you know, it's much more accretive, you know, once you consider, you know, you know, certain, you know, equity debt ratios to, to make sure that you pay down the debt, you know, to an optimal level, you know. But fundamentally, you know, you know, remember also we said, you know, we do not want to be funding the Russian business. It's gotta be self-funding, you know. But we also don't want it to be sitting with idle cash, you know, if, you know, it's not able to be utilized to, to, to fund activities, you know. Yeah. It's very difficult to speak on the VT business because it's an ever-changing environment. I think, you know, within two weeks' time, you know, the sanction regimes keep tightening, you know. But I think suffice to say currently, you know, that's what we utilize the cash for. Okay. Thanks. So, can you say what your cash balance is in Russia? And then. No, I'm not gonna disclose. You know, I'll be able to disclose that, you know, as per usual, once we disclose the, you know, audited numbers in May, you know, and then we'll be able to give full disclosure. Okay. And then my other question was just in terms of Mongolia. Is there any sort of order book number you can give us, or is the order book growing, just in terms of understanding the sustainability of this, you know, very strong revenue growth that you've managed? I think when you look at that order book that we've quoted there for Eurasia, the bulk of it, I mean, because there's no other book to really talk about in VT, you know, because it's really the aftermarket. That's, you can ask that to Mongolia. Okay. Understood. Understood. Thank you. You had three. You done, James? Yep. Yep. Thank you very much. Thank you. Our next question comes from Michelle Gumede of Business Day. Please go ahead. Thank you. Thanks so much, Dominic, for the call. I know you said you'd normally get into the nitty-gritty of it, but could you please give clarity around the rationale that led to the Section 189 at Ingrain, the timeline, as well as the number of people that are currently employed by Ingrain? Like I say, I mean, at the moment, you know, we can't, you know, disclose it that much. We can understand when you look at the, you know, consumer, you know, industry in this environment, you know, and that we, you know, most of our customers are impacted as well because we're selling to the manufacturers, you know. And therefore, in the high-interest-rate environment, our view is that it's, you know, therefore, there will be, you know, people, you know, in the hundreds. I mean, you know, Ingrain doesn't employ a lot of people, you know, but it would not be less than, you know, 100 people that are impacted. You know, I can't say at the moment, you know, the exact number because we are going through consultation in terms of the people that are impacted, you know. And hence, you know, if you understand Section 189, it you've gotta go through the process, you know. And, you know, 'cause I cannot preemptively say, you know, so rather, that discussions allow, you know, the team, you know, because I don't want them to be reading about it in the front page of a newspaper, you know, when I'm engaging with them in the bona fide discussions to find alternatives and to get saying what is the overall impact. Sorry, Dominic. My question was how many people are currently employed, not how many. Oh, how many people are okay? All right. I mean, Chris, you know, roughly? around about 920 people. Okay. Sorry about that, Michelle. It's 900-odd people that we employ. Okay. And then just the last one in terms of the timeline, when did the Section 189 actually kick off? I think we've been, you know, we kicked off around February, you know. Obviously, it's almost like, you know, you have to go through three months' consultation, you know, and then, obviously, then you are able to those that are impacted, you know, will then exit the business over the time frame. So you're looking at really between 5-6 months, you know, a process of going through from the start to the finish of the process here. Okay. Thanks for that. Appreciate it. Ladies and gentlemen, just a reminder, if you'd like to ask a question, you're welcome to press star and then one to place yourself in the question queue. Our next question comes from Rowan Goeller of Chronux Research. Please go ahead. Thank you. Good afternoon. Thanks for the call. Two questions for. Rowan, you're very faint. Hello. Can you hear me there, Dominic? Is that better? I'm struggling. I don't know whether it's the volume on your side, you know, Rowan. Can you hear me? I can hear you fine. Oh, you're better now. You're better now, Rowan. Is that better? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Dominic, two questions from my side. The first is on starch. Maize prices have kicked up quite sharply in South Africa because of the very dry conditions. Can you just run through what that means for the starch business? In your update, you did say you'd secured volumes through to 2025. But just what the movements in maize prices do mean for your business and margins is the first question. Okay. Chris, you know, you want to respond to that? Yeah. So, Brent, you know, rising prices and particularly the move towards import parity, which is what we flagged in the thing in the trading update, will mean that as we price, you know, potentially customers who are on a competitive price contract with us, we sh we may see some margin squeeze coming through in that particular area. That will, however, be offset with better pricing on some of our agri-products, our agri-products. And I think that will probably impact impact about 50% of our domestic volume. And then on our customers, where we price on a cost-plus basis, the rising cost of maize will be transferred. That risk will be transferred to our, to our customers. I think in terms of maize crop and supply, though, you know, the maize that we're currently milling at the moment was secured out of last season's maize. The current season and the harvest, we're not expecting any shortage in supply into our, you know, from our farmer base, which means that we'll have sufficient maize available into the 2025 financial year as well. Thank you. Thanks for that. My second question is for Emmy, in Russia. Is any change in the sanctions list introduced, over the last couple of months? Yeah. Rowan, just to give you an indication, as of January, the likes of GV Gold were sanctioned. And of late, we've seen a new list that's coming out. Companies like SUEK were part of the new list. So as the conflagration is continuing, we're seeing the impact on a continuous basis constantly changing, Rowan. Thank you. What does it mean, potentially, for your volumes in Russia? It's difficult to say because, as we said initially, we were limited to the Siberia region. We are also looking at ways to say, how can we cover the territory at large? That gives us another way in terms of opportunities. But again, overall, as we've indicated, top line has come down 30%, which was quite significant for the business. But in a sense, Rowan, what it means I mean, you know, I think there's no new machine you know that you can send it to Eurasia, you know. And obviously, with the new regimes, it's obviously, you know, targeting certain, you know, parts into certain segments that, you know, restricts your ability, you know, to, to service, you know, those kinds involved. But as Emmy is saying, you know, the cost of the breadth of the customer base that, you know, are not impacted by sanction is mainly on use side, you know, you know, in terms of the aftermarket. That's where, you know, we restricted, you know, to. But I guess, you know, from a base point of view, revenue will continue to come down up to a point where it stabilizes because now you'll be basically talking about the aftermarket, you know, of the business. You know, the key issue's gonna be margin realization, you know. Are you able to, you know, expect margin realization? The things that you can control continuously, the cost base, you know, is being addressed. You have given an indication that, you know, we wanna be breaking even. But I think the team has demonstrated that conditions that they continue to be profitable, you know. It is the magnitude, you know, thereof that, you know, one you know, is thinking of. Yeah. Thank you. Rowan, does that conclude your questions? Yes, that does. Thank you. Thank you. Our next question comes from Jovan Jackson of Aylett & Co. Please go ahead. Hi there, guys. Thanks for the opportunity to ask a question. Just a quick one on the service business, that or RSA equipment business. You mentioned that 25%-30% of your work was with technicians. Just one question is, do you guys actually then bill, like, you know, a service revenue, and is an element of parts to it? And then at what point do you cut? I understand that it's not easy to do it, though. I mean, is it your—the order book seems to have gone very low, but, you know, maybe at what level of your order book or something should you be watching that you saw cutting stuff? Yeah. I guess it's important to look at this. You know, the order book is one thing, you know, because it speaks to that you're populating in the market that you're in. But you know, you normally have an installed base of equipment, you know, in the territory that you operate in. And therefore, you know, your aftermarket, you know, entails basically selling parts. And the parts are over the counter, you know, or they are, you know, obviously, when you do services of machines, you know, an over-the-counter customer tend to do the work themselves. You know, there are those customers that, you know, we, we basically you know, where we'll do, do the servicing and supplying of parts or alternatively, you know, supporting them, you know, where we you know, they call it do it with me, you know, an environment. So I think when you look at it, the order book just impacts if you look from a future point of view, if you cannot continuously then increase that population, it will impact your aftermarket parts and service down the line. But I think the good thing is that operating in Southern Africa, we've got contiguous geographies that move people around, you know. And therefore, that's why Andronicca earlier on was citing things like what's happening in Zambia, what's happening in Namibia. You know, like, for instance, South Africa gets impacted quite a bit. You know, we are able to move people around, you know, that contingent of service people so that you don't get to retrench them. So for me, is that once you start getting at a level where, you know, your parts business, you know, assuming the sales was zero, new machine sales was zero, and you're not able to cover the cost, that's when you've gotta think way ahead of time to say, how do you take that fixed cost element, you know, the non-customer facing? But I think the business is quite optimized because we've been through these cycles many times, you know. Whenever we deploy a traffic plan, we do have clear measures of saying, what are those things that we can control that we can contain the cost, can reduce the cost? But, you know, by the same token, we know very well that once the cycle is down, it tends. And when it tends, it tends very quickly. You've gotta be quick on your feet, you know. And I guess I hope that gives you a bit sort of a bit of an indication, you know, how it works. Okay. I understand that. But maybe can you give us a steer as to what sort of cost base do you hold for this? 'Cause if it's 20%-30%, I mean, it's quite a large. And I mean, I'm assuming as a percentage of your cost, what does this represent? Yeah. We don't disclose it. Okay. Thank you. Thanks for your time. Thank you. The next question comes from Arthur Buchner of Courtney Capital. Please go ahead. Hi, Dominic. Thank you very much for taking my call. By our calculations, we work out at next results, net debt will be close to zero. With the share trading at a 50% discount to NAV, has management thought of implementing share buybacks rather than paying out dividends because the dividend yield at 8% effectively ratchets up to about 12%? So better to buy back the stock at a discount than to actually pay out the dividend. I don't know if management's thought about that. Obviously, I think from a capital allocation, I do articulate that, you know, we go through a dynamic process where we weigh all the options, you know. And, you know, whenever we do buybacks, we'll announce accordingly, you know, whenever we, you know, because I think one of the key issue when you look at where we are as well is the growth element, you know. So there's a lot of competing, you know, issues that we've got we've gotta be thinking about. But I thought the indication that I was making was, you know, all the other options will be available except for the special div because the special div, you know, was specific. But to your point, though, you know, buybacks are not excluded, you know. You know, debt repayment, we've done the calcs, you know, as well. See what the threshold is, you know. So none of that is excluded, you know. I'm thinking in terms of our combination. Yeah. So that's on the calcs. Okay. Yeah. Thank you very much. That was pretty much it, the value enhancing of the discount to NAV buying back stock is for us, a no-brainer. But, we leave it to your, your better expertise. Thanks very much for taking the call. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, just a final reminder. If you have asked a question, you're welcome to press star and then one. We have a follow-up question from Paul Steegers of Nedbank. Please go ahead. Yeah. Thanks, thanks, operator. Hi, Dominic and Andronicca. Just a quick question on again on cash flow and working capital. Can you help us understand now that the order book obviously is going down in equipment services? You're drawing down inventory, I guess. So how should we think about working capital trends both in the first half and the second half, you know, following up from the previous question in terms of the balance sheet? 'Cause at the end of last year, fiscal year, you had quite a lot of cash balance. It may have been timing on creditor payments. I get it. But, you know, versus a gross debt. So in terms of optimizing that and the working capital outlook, what are you seeing there? Thanks. Yeah. Yeah, Paul. Thanks for the question. I think, you know, it was very important that we also give you color to see where was the cash, you know, where was the gross debt, you know. Because, you know, the net debt situation sometimes doesn't, you know, quite, you know, paint, you know, a good color. And given, you know, that we had a huge order book, you know, and from a lead time point of view, we had to procure the inventory. And there were payables, you know, that were also, you know, taken into account, using the funds from Caterpillar. And those were not, you know they're suddenly, you know, coming for free, you know. So that for me is the main focus. So, you know, in the results you'll already see, you know, in this next, you know, I mean, in the six months, you know, you're beginning to find, you know, the ordering, you know, from Caterpillar. But you're still sitting with some inventory that you've gotta, you know, deliver against. As you do that, you now start repaying, you know, your gross debt, you know. And then you make sure that, you know, as I spoke earlier on about repatriating cash and make sure that the cash, it is in the right area, you know. So that you're not sitting with cash elsewhere and you sit with debt in South Africa. And that's basically what, you know, we've been working on. Hence, you know, the repayment that we spoke about was precisely that, you know, that we have, you know, utilized that cash to pay debt, the gross debt down, you know, in this environment. So, then the second half, I think you'll then be able to actually see to what extent we've pulled the handbrake on the ordering of machines because the order book gives you a bit of an indication, you know, where, you know, that is. And I think you would note, you know, you know, Paul, that, you know, the order book, you know, will start hovering between ZAR 2 billion-ZAR 2.5 billion. And it tends to sort of stabilize in that area, you know. Seldom, you know, does it go, you know, you know, rock bottom, you know. I'm not saying it's not possible, you know. But in my experience, you don't really go you know, it starts to hover around that area because as you are able to place orders and actually, you know, deliver those machines very quickly, you know, the turn is quick. Whereas if the lead time starts to change, you place more order to meet your order book, in which instance, it starts using the working capital. I think for the parts, you know, we will continue to order parts, you know, because you'd expect the aftermarket side to pick up, you know. But that's all dependent on whether, you know, mining companies are able to mine, you know. They don't, you know, you don't have a huge machine park, you know. So by and large, I think, you know, the second half will be similar to how our cycle work where we deliver a lot of, you know, the equipment in the second half because, you know, December and January is fairly slow. And, you'll see a pickup, you know, in this month as we've seen it obviously, you know, the progressing month up to September. Yeah. Yeah. Thanks. Thanks, Dominic. I guess just to finalize the question, what will it take for your interest cost burden to start coming down materially? You know, your interest costs net interest costs are massive as a percentage of your profits. Is it literally just lower interest rates? And obviously, cash generation as well, which is was the first part of my question. But I'm trying to get a sense of how quickly do you think your interest cost burden could start to reduce from current levels? Thanks. I think you'll see it in the second half, Paul, you know. Because, I mean, there's an interest cost doesn't only sit on the gross debt. It sits also on the payables, you know. And I think that sometimes that's what distorts, you know because those floor plans, you know, do come at a cost, you know. And then but you'll see it in the second half. Okay. Thank you very much. Thank you. Our next question comes from Merrick Barker of Camissa Asset Management. Please go ahead. Just a question relates to coming to Southern Africa. Are you seeing any changes in market share, across the Southern African region in the current environment? Dominic? Yeah. We are seeing a slowdown in that. On the market share, there are segments where we are growing market share. There are certain segments where we're losing market share, particularly in the smaller equipment segment, the small construction equipment where there is competition from the Chinese market. There, we are impacted. But on the mining side, we are still leading the market there in terms of market share. Thanks. Thank you. Merrick, does that conclude the questions? Yes. Thanks. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, we have no further questions from the conference lines. I will now hand back for closing remarks. You know, thank you very much. And then I really appreciate the robustness of the questions. And, you know, it's always difficult to do the trading update, you know, without sounding evasive. But as per usual, we try and give you a bit of color because we don't engage, you know, post-close period, you know. Therefore, we try to give you a bit of color. And, you know, once we release our half-year, whether there'll be more issues. I know sometimes it is frustrating and that, you know, you seem like we're waiting for questions. But I think we can be more specific because those numbers will be reviewed. And therefore, you know, I hope this has been helpful. Thanks, everybody, for your time, you know, till we see you next time. Thank you. Thank you, sir. Ladies and gentlemen, that concludes today's event. Thank you for joining us. You may now disconnect your lines.